Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

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Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby callmefence » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:54 am

I've never been much for aftermarket mods. Never deleted a truck. What are the advantages and disadvantages?
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby Atimm693 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:12 pm

Disadvantages, no warranty, possible DOT violations, and it will not pass emissions testing.

Advantages, more power, higher fuel economy, lower EGTs, better longevity overall, and you don't have to worry about future problems with the emissions system. Granted, a lot of those can be had simply with a good tune.

Deleted pre-DEF trucks will have more fuel economy gains with a delete. DEF systems are really pretty reliable and get decent fuel economy as is, and do not heat soak the whole engine during regen like pre-DEF engines did.
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby Brute 23 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:29 pm

I will be a little more blunt... illegal for on-road use. So pretty much imagine all the hassle that goes along with it. 99% of the time you won't have and issue but that 1% will be a nightmare.

I won't own a "regen" truck. It has to either run def or be pre-emissions.
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby SALTBRANCH2 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:52 pm

Most dealers will not take it in on trade if deleted. All the above as said. A buddy got a ticket by the highway patrol for being deleted a few weeks ago. He was pulled over for speeding on IH37 then ended up with extra tickets for the deletes. He is in process of undeleting now.
Crazy BS if you ask me. Government ruined a perfectly good motor. I used to get a clean burning fuel tax credit for running diesel trucks back in the 90's
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby Nesikep » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:36 pm

Delete but make it look stock perhaps? dummy cat, etc..
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:20 pm

If your going to keep the truck delete it. I didn't really see much improvement on mpg over just having the truck programmed. The EGR and crankcase filter is worse than the exhaust system on the engine. The only downside is if you get stopped and they decided to make an example out of you. We kept the same tail pipe and put a quiet 4" SS muffler on, no need to tell and show the world what you've done. We have well over 140k miles since we deleted without a single problem. But then again the truck has never been back to the dealer since it left the lot.
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby JMJ Farms » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:52 pm

Pretty good posts. Summed it up real good.

Word of advice. I don’t know about all of them but the newer Cummins that use DEF DO NOT like to idle much. If you get out longer than 5 minutes, switch it off. If not you will get to buy a new turbo. This is my experience EVEN IF you work them hard. They don’t like to idle.
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby pricefarm » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:44 pm

JMJ Farms wrote:Pretty good posts. Summed it up real good.

Word of advice. I don’t know about all of them but the newer Cummins that use DEF DO NOT like to idle much. If you get out longer than 5 minutes, switch it off. If not you will get to buy a new turbo. This is my experience EVEN IF you work them hard. They don’t like to idle.


I hope that isn't true for the Fords. I finally got a new work truck about 3 months ago 2017 F-450. It idles a couple hours at a time sometime.
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby JMJ Farms » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:00 pm

pricefarm wrote:
JMJ Farms wrote:Pretty good posts. Summed it up real good.

Word of advice. I don’t know about all of them but the newer Cummins that use DEF DO NOT like to idle much. If you get out longer than 5 minutes, switch it off. If not you will get to buy a new turbo. This is my experience EVEN IF you work them hard. They don’t like to idle.


I hope that isn't true for the Fords. I finally got a new work truck about 3 months ago 2017 F-450. It idles a couple hours at a time sometime.


Honestly don’t know Pricefarm. My guess would be it’s a similar scenario but I’m not sure. That’s exactly what I used to do. I’d get out to do something that was supposed to take a few minutes and end up being 30. Or I’d run in the builders supply while my boys were working on homework and I’d leave the AC running for them. May be in there an hour or more. If you delete it, this is no longer a problem.

Edited to add: RAM has a high idle setting on the steering wheel. You are supposed to set it if the truck is gonna be left idling. Can set the RPM between
1000-1500 RPM or something like that. Only time I ever used it was when it was cold or I had jumper cables hooked to something hard to crank.
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby pricefarm » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:22 pm

So maybe the high idle is better for it. My work truck is a bucket truck and whenever you turn the pto on for the lift to work the truck idles up.
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby JMJ Farms » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:42 pm

pricefarm wrote:So maybe the high idle is better for it. My work truck is a bucket truck and whenever you turn the pto on for the lift to work the truck idles up.


I don’t completely understand the whole EGR process. Far from it. But I think you’re correct. I think high idle is supposed to keep the EGR temps up and allow the DEF to burn off and keep it from building soot. Idk. TrueGrit has told me about the EGR filter before. Seems it causes problems too.
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby Atimm693 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:57 pm

JMJ Farms wrote:
pricefarm wrote:So maybe the high idle is better for it. My work truck is a bucket truck and whenever you turn the pto on for the lift to work the truck idles up.


I don’t completely understand the whole EGR process. Far from it. But I think you’re correct. I think high idle is supposed to keep the EGR temps up and allow the DEF to burn off and keep it from building soot. Idk. TrueGrit has told me about the EGR filter before. Seems it causes problems too.


The prolonged idle issue has been around since they started using variable geometry turbos in the late 2000s. They're a lot more suceptible to carbon buildup because of all the moving parts.

At idle fuel is often not burned completely. Those hydrocarbons go through the catalyst and eventually end up in the DPF as soot, resulting in more frequent Regen cycles.

EGR is just a measure of applying an inert gas (exhaust fumes) to the combustion process, which lowers combustion temps, and consequently reduces NOx emissions. The complication being that diesel exhaust is often incredibly hot, requiring an EGR cooler, which transfers exhaust heat to the cooling system. That was the root of a lot of the problems with the 6.0 Powerstroke.
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby JMJ Farms » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:10 pm

Atimm693 wrote:
JMJ Farms wrote:
pricefarm wrote:So maybe the high idle is better for it. My work truck is a bucket truck and whenever you turn the pto on for the lift to work the truck idles up.


I don’t completely understand the whole EGR process. Far from it. But I think you’re correct. I think high idle is supposed to keep the EGR temps up and allow the DEF to burn off and keep it from building soot. Idk. TrueGrit has told me about the EGR filter before. Seems it causes problems too.


The prolonged idle issue has been around since they started using variable geometry turbos in the late 2000s. They're a lot more suceptible to carbon buildup because of all the moving parts.

At idle fuel is often not burned completely. Those hydrocarbons go through the catalyst and eventually end up in the DPF as soot, resulting in more frequent Regen cycles.

EGR is just a measure of applying an inert gas (exhaust fumes) to the combustion process, which lowers combustion temps, and consequently reduces NOx emissions. The complication being that diesel exhaust is often incredibly hot, requiring an EGR cooler, which transfers exhaust heat to the cooling system. That was the root of a lot of the problems with the 6.0 Powerstroke.


Good explanation. You seem to understand exactly what you’re talking about. If you don’t, at least you fooled me :lol2:

Atimm, do you know why is there such a big price difference on a turbo (RAM) between 2012.5 and 2013?
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby Brute 23 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:25 pm

Atimm693 wrote:
JMJ Farms wrote:
pricefarm wrote:So maybe the high idle is better for it. My work truck is a bucket truck and whenever you turn the pto on for the lift to work the truck idles up.


I don’t completely understand the whole EGR process. Far from it. But I think you’re correct. I think high idle is supposed to keep the EGR temps up and allow the DEF to burn off and keep it from building soot. Idk. TrueGrit has told me about the EGR filter before. Seems it causes problems too.


The prolonged idle issue has been around since they started using variable geometry turbos in the late 2000s. They're a lot more suceptible to carbon buildup because of all the moving parts.

At idle fuel is often not burned completely. Those hydrocarbons go through the catalyst and eventually end up in the DPF as soot, resulting in more frequent Regen cycles.

EGR is just a measure of applying an inert gas (exhaust fumes) to the combustion process, which lowers combustion temps, and consequently reduces NOx emissions. The complication being that diesel exhaust is often incredibly hot, requiring an EGR cooler, which transfers exhaust heat to the cooling system. That was the root of a lot of the problems with the 6.0 Powerstroke.


I don't understand exactly how the turbos work but I have been told by two different service guys, at two different dealers, for both Chevrolet and Dodge to use your exhaust brake regularly on the new diesels. Some thing about to helping to prevent build up from moving a lot. Any validity to that?
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Re: Deleted Cummins..pros and cons

Postby cfpinz » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:17 am

I've owned 2 trucks with the Cummins engine, a 2007 and a 2009 - both with the 6.7. The '07 came to me deleted and set slightly above stock whereas I deleted the 2009 myself and returned it to stock programming. The '09 picked up a good bit of power even using the stock settings, and also gained about 4 mpg. The biggest selling point to me is the oil, once the emissions have been removed from these trucks the engine oil is much cleaner at a 5k mile change interval. I see no downside to deleting a Cummins other than legalities.

If I were to buy a new truck with the Cummins engine, I'd feel comfortable removing the emissions at the first oil change - I just have that much faith in the engine. That being said, I just bought a new Ford with their 6.7 in it Tuesday and will likely leave everything on that engine for the duration of the factory warranty. Their engine scares the crap out of me.
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