Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Discuss upcoming sales and sale results.
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Ky hills
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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by Ky hills » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 am

MurraysMutts wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:21 pm
The idea of all the eggs in one basket is a confounded one. One one hand u run a chance of getting a marketupswing during the sale of one of the small groups. On the other hand, the larger group may bring more just because it's a larger group.
I guess we just have to play what we are dealt sometimes...

I like the cow/calf operation myself. Even with all the pitfalls that can come with it. I imagine there are just as many issues with the other 2 operations as well tho.

It sounds like I need to focus on tightening the calving window. Most likely 2 seperate calving windows.
Ideally I would like to only have one bull to mess with. Just use him at one place for 3 months and then move him to the other place for 3 months. Probly have to pick a place to winter him tho.
Another focus I think should be getting calves weaned and holding til grass falls off I think.
That should put all the weight on them that I'm capable of, and make for a good animal for the next guy to grow.
Unless I get lucky and have winter grazing made available again...
We have been having a majority of calves in 2 more defined calving times. We try to run the bull with ones that are presumably bred after pulling from another group. When we have multiple bulls it makes it more complicated but can work out if they can be ran together when not needed.
I have run stocker cattle, that’s what my parents did too instead of cow/calf. I prefer cow/calf but there are some good points to stockers. You can have some problems in the first few weeks with them, and have some losses and a lot of money in medicine like Drazzin or Nuflor. Usually once they get started they are pretty well hands off. The problems I see with them is the markets don’t seem to be cyclical in the sense that they used to be based on supply and demand. There are so many external factors that affect the markets that the investment in them is harder to get a profit from due to things affecting the markets so quickly.



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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by Stocker Steve » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:12 pm

callmefence wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:33 pm
Cow /calf, stocker calves and feeders are 3 separate businesses. For most it's better to do one good than to try to do all.
A business approach is to ID your first limitation - - land or capital or labor. Then optimize around that. Many on CT are limited by land, so then you will want to estimate return/acre for each of the 3 businesses, and re on the highest return/ACRE.
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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by callmefence » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:00 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:12 pm
callmefence wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:33 pm
Cow /calf, stocker calves and feeders are 3 separate businesses. For most it's better to do one good than to try to do all.
A business approach is to ID your first limitation - - land or capital or labor. Then optimize around that. Many on CT are limited by land, so then you will want to estimate return/acre for each of the 3 businesses, and re on the highest return/ACRE.
You forget location.
Stocker calves have a strong market here. Small calves very available and a good market , close to west Texas and panhandle feedlots for moving all classes of stockers. Feeder operations not so much unless you're out west. Also good winter pastures allows big stocker calf groups to be pastured without ever feeding a bale of hay all winter long. ... location, location, location.
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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by Stocker Steve » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:00 pm

No.

Location is factored into each of your costs, and the value of what you chose to produce. For example - - labor is U$S 2 per hour and pasture is free after you fire some more rain forest. Then you should have a high return per with cow/calf.

Return per, return per, return per.
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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by callmefence » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:05 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:00 pm
No.

Location is factored into each of your costs, and the value of what you chose to produce. For example - - labor is U$S 2 per hour and pasture is free after you fire some more rain forest. Then you should have a high return per with cow/calf.

Return per, return per, return per.
Best return per acre = deer and hogs... :hat:
Support your local hardworking white boy.




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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by Dave » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:49 am

callmefence wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:05 pm
Stocker Steve wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:00 pm
No.

Location is factored into each of your costs, and the value of what you chose to produce. For example - - labor is U$S 2 per hour and pasture is free after you fire some more rain forest. Then you should have a high return per with cow/calf.

Return per, return per, return per.
Best return per acre = deer and hogs... :hat:
Location. Return per acre on deer here = $0 :cboy:

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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by MurraysMutts » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:58 pm

My limitation is acreage and capital. Lol
Probly wanna stick with my cow/calf.
The fences are not spectacular on either place. But the ones I have now, stay put!!!

Got some to preg b4 long. And some calves to sell most likely this fall. I'm thinking anything's thats open is going bye bye. They sure had plenty of time to breed now. So if they ain't doing the job they are gone and I'll figure out what to do after they sell...
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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by Lucky » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:51 pm

I’m late on this one and didn’t read every post so this might have been mentioned already but, would it be possible to run all the cows together on one place? If distance isn’t too big a factor you could swap places every 45 days during the grazing season then bring all the cows home during feeding season. This would give each pasture a 45 day break, allow you to run your bulls for 90 days and pull them, and give you a spot to wean calves for 45 days on the pasture your not using for cows. I’d probably wean the calves at home place so when you ship them it’d be time to bring the herd home for the winter. Just a thought

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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by gcreekrch » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:59 pm

Tighten your calving season to 45 days. Buy the best bull you can find and market the best calves in the sale.

If you want to play the market with feeders get Mr. Kenny here to mentor you. He is one of those fellas I would love to sit and visit for a day or two.
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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by MurraysMutts » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:07 pm

Lucky wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:51 pm
I’m late on this one and didn’t read every post so this might have been mentioned already but, would it be possible to run all the cows together on one place? If distance isn’t too big a factor you could swap places every 45 days during the grazing season then bring all the cows home during feeding season. This would give each pasture a 45 day break, allow you to run your bulls for 90 days and pull them, and give you a spot to wean calves for 45 days on the pasture your not using for cows. I’d probably wean the calves at home place so when you ship them it’d be time to bring the herd home for the winter. Just a thought
Thank you for sharing. I have given thought to this idea b4. For personal reasons I just cant make it work.
As an aside, last year I lost 2 bulls at the lease place. One just disappeared. The other fell off a cliff and landed on his head. B4 he did that, him and a cow that I turned out with him somehow or another got out AND wound up at a neighbors. I kinda knew the fella. Hes a great guy and a great neighbor so it all worked out. The ones that are there now stay put. That is, they dont wrestle with the fence. The home cows have various different fences, some electric, some barb etc. They are all homed so to speak I guess. But anyway...
What I need is another small lease place I reckon. Like those come available every day! Lol

Thanks again for the ideas folks. Its greatly appreciated. I'm dang sure gonna get that calving window tightened. 45 days would sure be nice, but we will see what happens. Got a couple that may hit the road if they turn up open this fall. One is a 2 and a half year old heifer that I really like too. O well. Such is life...
Crossbred for high bread vinegar....

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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by gcreekrch » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:23 pm

MurraysMutts wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:07 pm
Lucky wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:51 pm
I’m late on this one and didn’t read every post so this might have been mentioned already but, would it be possible to run all the cows together on one place? If distance isn’t too big a factor you could swap places every 45 days during the grazing season then bring all the cows home during feeding season. This would give each pasture a 45 day break, allow you to run your bulls for 90 days and pull them, and give you a spot to wean calves for 45 days on the pasture your not using for cows. I’d probably wean the calves at home place so when you ship them it’d be time to bring the herd home for the winter. Just a thought
Thank you for sharing. I have given thought to this idea b4. For personal reasons I just cant make it work.
As an aside, last year I lost 2 bulls at the lease place. One just disappeared. The other fell off a cliff and landed on his head. B4 he did that, him and a cow that I turned out with him somehow or another got out AND wound up at a neighbors. I kinda knew the fella. Hes a great guy and a great neighbor so it all worked out. The ones that are there now stay put. That is, they dont wrestle with the fence. The home cows have various different fences, some electric, some barb etc. They are all homed so to speak I guess. But anyway...
What I need is another small lease place I reckon. Like those come available every day! Lol

Thanks again for the ideas folks. Its greatly appreciated. I'm dang sure gonna get that calving window tightened. 45 days would sure be nice, but we will see what happens. Got a couple that may hit the road if they turn up open this fall. One is a 2 and a half year old heifer that I really like too. O well. Such is life...
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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by Lee VanRoss » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:29 am

What gcreekrch said about 45 days for the bull. Also only keep heifers born in the 1st 30 days of calving cycle.
Do not spend time and $ on pregging. Cull anything that does not calve in 60 days.
Get at least a 10 joule fencer with a GOOD ground. rotate/rotate/rotate

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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by Dave » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:40 pm

Lee VanRoss wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:29 am
What gcreekrch said about 45 days for the bull. Also only keep heifers born in the 1st 30 days of calving cycle.
Do not spend time and $ on pregging. Cull anything that does not calve in 60 days.
Get at least a 10 joule fencer with a GOOD ground. rotate/rotate/rotate
Spend the time and $ to preg check. The money spent feeding an open cow clear the end of the next calving season will more than cover the cost of the person preg checking.

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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by Stocker Steve » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:01 am

[quote
last year I lost 2 bulls at the lease place. One just disappeared. The other fell off a cliff and landed on his head.
[/quote]

un lucky ?
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Re: Maximize! (Advice/ideas)

Post by MurraysMutts » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:47 pm

gcreekrch wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:23 pm
MurraysMutts wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:07 pm
Lucky wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:51 pm
I’m late on this one and didn’t read every post so this might have been mentioned already but, would it be possible to run all the cows together on one place? If distance isn’t too big a factor you could swap places every 45 days during the grazing season then bring all the cows home during feeding season. This would give each pasture a 45 day break, allow you to run your bulls for 90 days and pull them, and give you a spot to wean calves for 45 days on the pasture your not using for cows. I’d probably wean the calves at home place so when you ship them it’d be time to bring the herd home for the winter. Just a thought
Thank you for sharing. I have given thought to this idea b4. For personal reasons I just cant make it work.
As an aside, last year I lost 2 bulls at the lease place. One just disappeared. The other fell off a cliff and landed on his head. B4 he did that, him and a cow that I turned out with him somehow or another got out AND wound up at a neighbors. I kinda knew the fella. Hes a great guy and a great neighbor so it all worked out. The ones that are there now stay put. That is, they dont wrestle with the fence. The home cows have various different fences, some electric, some barb etc. They are all homed so to speak I guess. But anyway...
What I need is another small lease place I reckon. Like those come available every day! Lol

Thanks again for the ideas folks. Its greatly appreciated. I'm dang sure gonna get that calving window tightened. 45 days would sure be nice, but we will see what happens. Got a couple that may hit the road if they turn up open this fall. One is a 2 and a half year old heifer that I really like too. O well. Such is life...
Favourites or not you need to think of them as employees. You are paying a full wage with health benefits. If they don’t produce you need to fire them.
I've definitely given her more than enough time. Her 2 mates have 4 month old calves already. That being said, this heifer is larger, but 3 months younger. Meh...
Idk. She has most assuredly earned her spot on the fall cull list.

I do preg check occasionally!
I also have my bulls evaluated every year.
Vet saved me a calf crop last year. Had a bull with a damaged testicle. Said he would breed but not reliably.
I also believe pregging and BSE annual is a good idea.
Now if I get to where I have reliable cows and bulls. I may skip pregging and cull what doesnt breed. But that's later and not now. May never happen that way.
Crossbred for high bread vinegar....

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