When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

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When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Echo » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:07 pm

I have a 55 acre cow pasture that I am in the process of reclaiming from mesquite. It was covered in small mesquite when we bought it 4 years ago (north central Texas). Being new to pasture management, I made the mistake of shredding it a couple of years ago, and of course, the mesquite came back with a vengeance, with as many as one small plant per square yard.

At the end of last summer (Sept 2019) I had it sprayed with Sendero, which worked great. I know Sendero's mesquite kill rate is about 70% of plants, so I'll have to spray with Sendero for the next 2 - 3 years to get it under control.

It has had cattle on it since I bought it and it had a lot of grass when purchased but has progressively become infested with other weeds. I want to get it back to mostly grass. My other smaller (non-mesquite infested) pastures and hayfield have been sprayed annually in the spring with Grazon P + D and fertilizer, which has worked well.

My mesquite-infested pasture hasn't been sprayed with Grazon or fertilizer since I bought it. So here's the question:

When should I start spraying my mesquite-infested pasture with Grazon and/or fertilizer?

Should I go ahead and spray Grazon and fertilizer this spring? (Even though I'll be spraying Sendero again at the end of the summer this year and probably for the next year or two after.) Should I spray Grazon only and not fertilizer? Or should I just spray Sendero only for the next couple of years? (I'm worried the other weeds will get even worse if I only spray Sendero).

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!



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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by bird dog » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:26 pm

Use Grazon and spray in April. If you think your grass is what you want, fertilize after the weeds are killed. Might want to do a soil test first to see where you are. The Grazon will burn the leaves off the mesquites and kill some of the smaller newer trees but won't kill the established ones. They will need to leaf out again before spraying. I would spot spray these in mid summer when its hot.

Where exactly are you located?

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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Echo » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:13 pm

I'm in northern Hill County, very close to Johnson County, near Covington.

What information does the soil test provide? (Sorry about my ignorance, I'm still pretty new at all this.)

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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Brute 23 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:26 pm

How big are the mesquite in the field?
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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Texas PaPaw » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:52 pm

For the past 2 years have been spraying my pastures with 8 oz of remedy and 1/2 oz/ac of Cimmaron plus. Have gotten excellent broadleaf weed control plus the mesquites are mostly dead. Where have thick mesquites, had this sprayed with a chopper. Will be surprised if very many mesquites green up this spring. Had significantly fewer live mesquites last summer than summer before. Am both very pleased and surprised with both broadleaf and mesquite control. Last year it cost $8/ac for chemical and $10 for aerial application. FWIW-am in southern Hill county near Aquilla. Another plus is neither remedy nor Cimmaron are restricted use, so no license needed to apply.
Good luck & happy trails.

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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by bird dog » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:40 pm

A soil test will tell you the soils PH level as well as what nutrients it needs to be productive. You can show it to whomever you buy fertilizer from and they will help you determine the mix you need to put out. Now weather you can afford it is a different question. It will most likely need a bunch of nitrogen and phosphorus. If your soil is black, you most likely won't need potash.

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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Echo » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:55 pm

Brute 23 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:26 pm
How big are the mesquite in the field?
Mostly about 3 feet tall. Some bigger, up to 5 feet or so. Mostly small because I shredded it (which I now know was a mistake).

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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Echo » Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:00 pm

Texas PaPaw wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:52 pm
For the past 2 years have been spraying my pastures with 8 oz of remedy and 1/2 oz/ac of Cimmaron plus. Have gotten excellent broadleaf weed control plus the mesquites are mostly dead. Where have thick mesquites, had this sprayed with a chopper. Will be surprised if very many mesquites green up this spring. Had significantly fewer live mesquites last summer than summer before. Am both very pleased and surprised with both broadleaf and mesquite control. Last year it cost $8/ac for chemical and $10 for aerial application. FWIW-am in southern Hill county near Aquilla. Another plus is neither remedy nor Cimmaron are restricted use, so no license needed to apply.
Does the remedy not kill the grass? I use remedy for hand spraying mesquite (and pretty much anything else I want to kill) and it seems like it kills everything?

Also, have you used Grazon P + D before? If so, how does using remedy and Cimmaron plus compare?

Thanks!

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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Texas PaPaw » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:53 pm

Echo wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:00 pm
Texas PaPaw wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:52 pm
For the past 2 years have been spraying my pastures with 8 oz of remedy and 1/2 oz/ac of Cimmaron plus. Have gotten excellent broadleaf weed control plus the mesquites are mostly dead. Where have thick mesquites, had this sprayed with a chopper. Will be surprised if very many mesquites green up this spring. Had significantly fewer live mesquites last summer than summer before. Am both very pleased and surprised with both broadleaf and mesquite control. Last year it cost $8/ac for chemical and $10 for aerial application. FWIW-am in southern Hill county near Aquilla. Another plus is neither remedy nor Cimmaron are restricted use, so no license needed to apply.
Does the remedy not kill the grass? I use remedy for hand spraying mesquite (and pretty much anything else I want to kill) and it seems like it kills everything?

Also, have you used Grazon P + D before? If so, how does using remedy and Cimarron plus compare?

Thanks!
Remedy with water does not hurt the grass, just broadleaves. Have used Grazon but like this better. Less chance of drift onto neighbors cotton field. Also The Cimarron has some soil residual that Grazon does not. It will keep down late emerging broadleaves such as wooly croton.
Good luck & happy trails.

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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Brute 23 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:21 pm

Echo wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:55 pm
Brute 23 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:26 pm
How big are the mesquite in the field?
Mostly about 3 feet tall. Some bigger, up to 5 feet or so. Mostly small because I shredded it (which I now know was a mistake).
Can you drive over the pasture with a sprayer or will you be hand spraying all of it?

The shredding is not a big deal. Some times you have to do it to get them manageable. You need full coverage with most of the stuff you are naming so some times you have to knock them back. They want these big full grown bushes because they can be easier to kill the first go round but Im not going to leave big bushes standing that I can't drive my sprayer over just to hand spray them all. In a lot of cases that's not logistically possible. I personally knock them back with the shredder and then start spraying annually. They may take a couple years to completely kill down but you are going to be spraying for weeds any ways and you have 15 years of seed bank to deal.

How I have personally done it is I would wait until the mesquites are greened out and growing, some of your normal weeds have come up, you have good moisture, maybe a little on the way, and spray 2pts/ac of Grazon Next HL. I can get 80%+ kill the first shot with my boom less sprayer like that. The kill will depend on how thick the grass and brush is. The thicker it is the lower your kill rate will be because its harder to get complete coverage. If you have a bunch of old grass piled around the bush it will block the poison getting to the bush so I would burn it asap before spring. I would follow up later in the year and hand spray out some of the stuff above where the sprayer can reach that is still green.

I would do that the first year, then go back to the recommended 1.5/ac annually after that. Depending on how your kill is the 2nd or 3rd year I would burn it or shred it down. Dead mean you can kick it with your foot and it breaks off at the ground. The good thing is mesquite is easy to kill compared to most brush.

There are probably better ways to do it but I know that works. In 2-3 years I can clean a pasture out like that and just go to annual maintenance.. :tiphat:
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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Echo » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:16 pm

Brute 23 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:21 pm
Echo wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:55 pm
Brute 23 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:26 pm
How big are the mesquite in the field?
Mostly about 3 feet tall. Some bigger, up to 5 feet or so. Mostly small because I shredded it (which I now know was a mistake).
Can you drive over the pasture with a sprayer or will you be hand spraying all of it?
There are way too many mesquite plants to hand spray. I have someone who does the spraying with a boom sprayer.

It sounds like I should probably go ahead and spray a broad coverage weed killer like Grazon this spring. And I'll probably spray the remaining mesquite again in late summer with Sendero and see where I am, unless the Grazon knocks them back enough that I don't think I need the Sendero again. Which would be nice, since the Sendero is pretty expensive...

Thanks to everyone for the input and info!

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Re: When to start using Grazon and fertilizer on a mesquite filled pasture treated with Sendero

Post by Brute 23 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:27 pm

The kill will not be as good with a big boom sprayer but it will knock them back over the next couple of years. You will have to follow up and hand spray any they miss. If I sprayed Grazon Next I would not follow up with scendaro. It's not necessary. Be sure they spray heavy 1.5-2pts... no a light weed kill dosage.

I tried spaying the high dollar stuff like scendaro that was supposed to be aimed more at brush but the weak link it still getting full coverage, which is hard with a big boom sprayer. For hand spaying where you can assure it, yes, it's probably worth it, but not out the boom of a contracted sprayer.
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