congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Discuss grasses and how to grow and harvest them.
ddd75
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1845
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:47 am
Location: KY

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby ddd75 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:25 pm

Yeah I was figuring the per acre cost as well and it was very high
0 x

User avatar
Bigfoot
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 11695
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:31 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby Bigfoot » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:03 pm

poorfarmer wrote:Ok I read the article and I see that he has a very low cost per head, but here is my question. So it mentions that he has about 1 cow per 10 acres of land and that allows him to feed basically no hay. So right now I would estimate that I need about 5 bales to get one cow through the winter. One bale $40. So $200 in hay per cow per winter. If I wanted to get rid of this once a year hay expense I would have to buy eight more acres per cow. Cost in my area $3500 an acre. Cost for eight more acres $28,000. I know land normally goes up in value, but a $28,000 investment to make $200. Am I missing something or might the marketing of his cattle and getting a better price be more of the reason he has been able to expand.


Yeah, I'm missing the economics of it to. Hay is cheaper than even rented land.
0 x
A tumble bug makes a hard livin. Why? Cause that's just the way be nice is.

User avatar
HDRider
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4553
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:25 am
Location: NE Arkansas

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby HDRider » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:11 pm

Or he is riding a credit boat.
0 x
bball wrote: "The juice wasn't worth the squeeze."
Dun said, "You gotta be flexible. Do whatever you have to do for the best results within your limitations."

User avatar
Supa Dexta
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1985
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:33 am
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby Supa Dexta » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:45 pm

Wish they had better pics. For 1000 cows and 110,000 dollar working facility, they show 50 head and maybe 1000 dollars of gates.
0 x

User avatar
TennesseeTuxedo
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 11457
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:49 pm
Location: Live in Franklin, TN farm in Warsaw, KY

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby TennesseeTuxedo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:06 pm

Bigfoot wrote:
poorfarmer wrote:Ok I read the article and I see that he has a very low cost per head, but here is my question. So it mentions that he has about 1 cow per 10 acres of land and that allows him to feed basically no hay. So right now I would estimate that I need about 5 bales to get one cow through the winter. One bale $40. So $200 in hay per cow per winter. If I wanted to get rid of this once a year hay expense I would have to buy eight more acres per cow. Cost in my area $3500 an acre. Cost for eight more acres $28,000. I know land normally goes up in value, but a $28,000 investment to make $200. Am I missing something or might the marketing of his cattle and getting a better price be more of the reason he has been able to expand.


Yeah, I'm missing the economics of it to. Hay is cheaper than even rented land.


If I recall correctly he does a pretty big business with his hunting business too.
0 x
You're not paranoid, they really are out to get you!

Lazy M
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1073
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:38 pm
Location: KY

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby Lazy M » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:57 pm

HDRider wrote:
Banjo wrote:I don't know for sure but I don't think he is hooked up with pharo anymore. pharo used to have a bull sale in ohio and now they don't. There may have been a parting of the ways.....may be somebody can verify that knows more.

Not listed..

https://www.pharocattle.com/coops/ohio

https://www.pharocattle.com/coops

Poor Mr. Coffett having to look at his pastures full of tiny, stunted Pharo cattle. Probably constantly having to sit through teleconferences with Kit spewing his extreme low input rhetoric..reminds me of the joke about the 2 dung beetles: One turns to the other and says, "This BS is getting hard to swallow!"..
0 x

Stocker Steve
GURU
GURU
Posts: 7932
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:28 am
Location: Central Minnesota

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby Stocker Steve » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:41 pm

poorfarmer wrote:So it mentions that he has about 1 cow per 10 acres of land and that allows him to feed basically no hay. So right now I would estimate that I need about 5 bales to get one cow through the winter. One bale $40. So $200 in hay per cow per winter. If I wanted to get rid of this once a year hay expense I would have to buy eight more acres per cow. Cost in my area $3500 an acre. Cost for eight more acres $28,000. I know land normally goes up in value, but a $28,000 investment to make $200. Am I missing something or might the marketing of his cattle and getting a better price be more of the reason he has been able to expand.


Ya - - hay is evil :devil2: and you should yield more than 5 bales worth of forage from 8 acres.

One of Kit' points is that many producers are overstocked and this contributes to a lot of hay feeding. This is true, but the short term optimum depends on feed and labor and beef prices. True believers skip the math and just state that feed prices will go up some day so -- hay is evil.

Pretty hard for non traders to expand and contract a cow herd quickly due to pricing volitility. So we need to consider some short term cattle. Sounds like Jim has some. Pasturing stockers or yearling breeding stock or cull cows can work well during the spring flush.
0 x
Stocker Steve

User avatar
Bigfoot
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 11695
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:31 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby Bigfoot » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:21 pm

My book keeping and justification of expenses is questionable at best, so I promise I'm not throwing stones. He calls land $15 an acre, and 10 acres per cow. Pasture here (and he's not here) would rent for $40-$60, and row crop could get dangerously close to $300. To the best of my knowledge there is none of either to rent. I'm with him on the added value of a bred heifer though (if you can sell her). I'm also in favor of a young cow herd. I'll let one simmer till she's 9 or 10 though.

Any time your doing it different, your gonna attract attention. His operation is certainly different.
0 x
A tumble bug makes a hard livin. Why? Cause that's just the way be nice is.

User avatar
Nesikep
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 13181
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:37 pm
Location: Lillooet, BC, Canada

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby Nesikep » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:13 am

If you make your own hay, and stock what you can stock, then in the winters we have here you're always going to be feeding hay or you're going to be terribly understocked in the growing season. The cost of making hay rarely varies by much, the cost of it is mostly determined by demand (serious droughts ignored).

I'm of the opinion that as long as a cow produces average or better calves, she gets to stay.. there must be something good about her and I might want a bunch more daughters.. My old granny I only kept one calf before she got to 10 years old, her 14th-16th calves I kept and are great... I'm willing to write off the value of the cow (bury her) if I get more, better calves... evidently this is the exception not the rule though.

Steve, I've had single cuts where I've made that much or more per acre.. I've pulled 700x 80 lb bales off 6 acres in a cut.. unfortunately again, the exception not the rule..
1 x
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
-Christopher Hitchens

ddd75
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1845
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:47 am
Location: KY

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby ddd75 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:24 am

i baled 118 4x4 round bales off 8 acres last year. That's 3,540.00 @ 30 / roll value in 1 cutting.

That land is 10-14k / ac land. lets say you pulled 200 for the year. that's 6k in hay. Every 2 years you'll pay for an acre. 8 acres would take 16 years to pay for in hay. Not bad when considering how much the land is valued.



Now to the understock so you don't have to make hay theory. In KY I fed hay around Xmas every single year. They were back to grazing on March 20th, every year. I had 3 months of hay feeding, around 600-800 round bales. If I understocked and fed stockpiled grass, I'm guessing I'd have to cut my herd size in almost half. What would you do with all the grass in the warm months? buy stockers? You can't gain enough weight in that time on grass alone to make them even worth it. 800 bales @ 30 each is 24,000 dollars. My hay equipment cost me around 10k. What about fertilizer and seed!?!?!? Well, I unroll my bales where I got the hay. no seed / fertilizer needed. 0 input costs other then fuel.

Anyway you want to spin it it just doesn't make sense.
1 x

User avatar
kenny thomas
GURU
GURU
Posts: 7813
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:16 pm
Location: SW tip of Virginia

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby kenny thomas » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:42 am

Just a couple of thoughts, very first thing it says its reclaimed mine land. Value is nothing compared to crop land or even good grazing land. In some areas of eastern KY, and in VA this type land can be leased cheap. Thousands and thousands of acres. I do know of 2 producers that have so much of this leased that they run hundreds of cows and never feed hay. But there also is no,where there to make hay or buy hay. I can graze 10+ months by stockpiling and have a cow to 1.2 acres. Yes i could feed a lot of hay and increase numbers but mornings like this when its 14 I'm too lazy to get out and feed. Let the cow harvest it.
My grazing is not the mining land. My soil is really productive, just steep.
1 x
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6328
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby Bright Raven » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:25 am

There are several programs in Eastern Kentucky to promote cattle production on Reclaimed Mined Lands (Coal). The programs are generous. I have a friend who participates in a heifer program offered at the UK Agricultural research facility in Breathitt County. He takes open heifers there in the spring, they are AI bred, grazed all summer and he goes and gets them in the Fall.

https://www.lanereport.com/54377/2015/0 ... -kentucky/

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.kentucky ... 07057.html
0 x
Make America Happy Again

User avatar
Jogeephus
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 23925
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: South Georgia

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby Jogeephus » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:56 pm

poorfarmer wrote:Ok I read the article and I see that he has a very low cost per head, but here is my question. So it mentions that he has about 1 cow per 10 acres of land and that allows him to feed basically no hay. So right now I would estimate that I need about 5 bales to get one cow through the winter. One bale $40. So $200 in hay per cow per winter. If I wanted to get rid of this once a year hay expense I would have to buy eight more acres per cow. Cost in my area $3500 an acre. Cost for eight more acres $28,000. I know land normally goes up in value, but a $28,000 investment to make $200. Am I missing something or might the marketing of his cattle and getting a better price be more of the reason he has been able to expand.


Can't speak for him but it sounds like he has several irons in the fire and cattle is just one of them. A lot of people view buying land as a good investment but if you have land there are taxes and upkeep on the land and what better way to pay your taxes and keep your land mowed and and groomed than to run cattle on it? Especially if you aren't out there every day pouring bags of feed in front of them.
1 x
Experience - the ability to instantly recognize a mistake when you make it again.

User avatar
sim.-ang.king
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4224
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Southern IL
Contact:

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby sim.-ang.king » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:21 pm

poorfarmer wrote:Ok I read the article and I see that he has a very low cost per head, but here is my question. So it mentions that he has about 1 cow per 10 acres of land and that allows him to feed basically no hay. So right now I would estimate that I need about 5 bales to get one cow through the winter. One bale $40. So $200 in hay per cow per winter. If I wanted to get rid of this once a year hay expense I would have to buy eight more acres per cow. Cost in my area $3500 an acre. Cost for eight more acres $28,000. I know land normally goes up in value, but a $28,000 investment to make $200. Am I missing something or might the marketing of his cattle and getting a better price be more of the reason he has been able to expand.

Your thinking too deeply into this.


It's quite simple really...



...don't charge your cattle rent.
0 x
"Benign Neglect" -Dun

Allenw
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:37 pm
Location: NW OK

Re: congrats to James Coffelt, Ohio land and cattle.. front page of ohio farmer!

Postby Allenw » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:21 am

ddd75 wrote:i baled 118 4x4 round bales off 8 acres last year. That's 3,540.00 @ 30 / roll value in 1 cutting.

That land is 10-14k / ac land. lets say you pulled 200 for the year. that's 6k in hay. Every 2 years you'll pay for an acre. 8 acres would take 16 years to pay for in hay. Not bad when considering how much the land is valued.



Now to the understock so you don't have to make hay theory. In KY I fed hay around Xmas every single year. They were back to grazing on March 20th, every year. I had 3 months of hay feeding, around 600-800 round bales. If I understocked and fed stockpiled grass, I'm guessing I'd have to cut my herd size in almost half. What would you do with all the grass in the warm months? buy stockers? You can't gain enough weight in that time on grass alone to make them even worth it. 800 bales @ 30 each is 24,000 dollars. My hay equipment cost me around 10k. What about fertilizer and seed!?!?!? Well, I unroll my bales where I got the hay. no seed / fertilizer needed. 0 input costs other then fuel.

Anyway you want to spin it it just doesn't make sense.


What does a 4x4 bale weigh? I may have seen a baler that small once.
0 x


Return to “Grasses, Pastures and Hay”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 4 guests