My Fence Project

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greybeard
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby greybeard » Sat May 19, 2018 7:46 am

It is the phase one tobacco money that the states that participated in the tobacco buyout got their hands on.

From whose pocket did this Phase One money directly come from?
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby Bright Raven » Sat May 19, 2018 8:23 am

greybeard wrote:
It is the phase one tobacco money that the states that participated in the tobacco buyout got their hands on.

From whose pocket did this Phase One money directly come from?


Banjo stated:

Unless things have changed.......CAIP is not govt money. It is the phase one tobacco money that the states that participated in the tobacco buyout got their hands on. Phase two was what the tobacco farmers got....this all came from the tobacco companies.


As he stated, the answer to your question is "the Tobacco Companies". See below if you mean who awards the money to the participant.

I coped this to provide some background:

In 1998, almost every state in the U.S. came together to approve the largest civil settlement in U.S. history, the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement (MSA). This court settlement between 46 states and the District of Columbia and the major tobacco companies forced them to end some of their more egregious marketing practices and provided for annual payments to the states for some of the medical costs of caring for the 16 million Americans who have smoking-caused illnesses. The settlement was huge: $206 billion over the first 25 years and the payments continue indefinitely into the future.


The state of Kentucky through the CAIP program has used some of the money it received in the Settlement to fund programs that benefit farmers who have a history of involvement in the growing of tobacco.

If you mean - who did it come to the CAIP participant from - it comes directly to the participant from the State Conservation/County Extension Office to the best of my knowledge. That is who issues my payment check after I complete my project.
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat May 19, 2018 8:29 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
greybeard wrote:
It is the phase one tobacco money that the states that participated in the tobacco buyout got their hands on.

From whose pocket did this Phase One money directly come from?


Banjo stated:

Unless things have changed.......CAIP is not govt money. It is the phase one tobacco money that the states that participated in the tobacco buyout got their hands on. Phase two was what the tobacco farmers got....this all came from the tobacco companies.


As he stated, the answer to your question is "the Tobacco Companies". See below if you mean who awards the money to the participant.

I coped this to provide some background:

In 1998, almost every state in the U.S. came together to approve the largest civil settlement in U.S. history, the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement (MSA). This court settlement between 46 states and the District of Columbia and the major tobacco companies forced them to end some of their more egregious marketing practices and provided for annual payments to the states for some of the medical costs of caring for the 16 million Americans who have smoking-caused illnesses. The settlement was huge: $206 billion over the first 25 years and the payments continue indefinitely into the future.


The state of Kentucky through the CAIP program has used some of the money it received in the Settlement to fund programs that benefit farmers who have a history of involvement in the growing of tobacco.

If you mean - who did it come to the CAIP participant from - it comes directly to the participant from the State Conservation/County Extension Office to the best of my knowledge. That is who issues my payment check after I complete my project.


You don't get it, the tobacco users and taxpayers pay. The tobacco companies tax the users for the government and the government "taxpayers" covers the health care costs associated with tobacco use "cancer". Except for the subsidies, the taxpayers pay all that.
https://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fip ... de=tobacco
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby Bright Raven » Sat May 19, 2018 8:37 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
greybeard wrote:From whose pocket did this Phase One money directly come from?


Banjo stated:

Unless things have changed.......CAIP is not govt money. It is the phase one tobacco money that the states that participated in the tobacco buyout got their hands on. Phase two was what the tobacco farmers got....this all came from the tobacco companies.


As he stated, the answer to your question is "the Tobacco Companies". See below if you mean who awards the money to the participant.

I coped this to provide some background:

In 1998, almost every state in the U.S. came together to approve the largest civil settlement in U.S. history, the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement (MSA). This court settlement between 46 states and the District of Columbia and the major tobacco companies forced them to end some of their more egregious marketing practices and provided for annual payments to the states for some of the medical costs of caring for the 16 million Americans who have smoking-caused illnesses. The settlement was huge: $206 billion over the first 25 years and the payments continue indefinitely into the future.


The state of Kentucky through the CAIP program has used some of the money it received in the Settlement to fund programs that benefit farmers who have a history of involvement in the growing of tobacco.

If you mean - who did it come to the CAIP participant from - it comes directly to the participant from the State Conservation/County Extension Office to the best of my knowledge. That is who issues my payment check after I complete my project.


You don't get it, the tobacco users and taxpayers pay. The tobacco companies tax the users for the government and the government "taxpayers" covers the health care costs associated with tobacco use "cancer". Except for the subsidies, the taxpayers pay all that.
https://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fip ... de=tobacco


I didn't dispute anything you stated. I was providing a response to Greybeard. If you read my original post, I stated that it is fundamentally government money. I am not trying to hide that. It is by all accounts a government program. I UNDERSTAND your position.
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby True Grit Farms » Sat May 19, 2018 8:44 pm

I think our state stole all the tobacco settlement money, and used it elsewhere....like pocket liners.
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby mack » Wed May 30, 2018 9:07 pm

bball wrote:In the first pic, appears to be a slope. Shouldn't the post be pounded to remain perpendicular to the ground instead of true plumb? (Should be leaned more to the right hand side in pic) or does that not actually matter. What say the professionals?

Ron, the fence looks darn good.
Do you guys not use steel pipe posts there?


Post should ALWAYS be perpendicular to ground... especially on fixed knot high tensile like pictured here. Aesthetics win most of the time however.

The reason why perpendicular = the wire should never be stapled tight to post. This is what allows the fence to flex when pressured. If the stay wires are not parallel to the post, then the staples can bind on the stay wires when the fence is impacted... causing the stretch between posts to take the impact instead of the entire pull between brace assemblies.


An amazing number of fences are constructed in a fashion that only makes sense because "it has always been done this way". With the invention of fixed knot woven wire, the rules have changed. There is a method to the madness of what the companies that manufacture this are teaching. A couple of points to make you scratch your head and question traditional thinking >>>>>>>

*why do you need a strand of barbed at 55" or so when you can put a strand of electric at 36" where the animal actually pressures? How many cattle actually try to reach over the fence instead of scratching at 30-40"?

*why do people pull around curves with braces? The brace is only geometrically functional when the strain is 180 degrees to the direction of the braced rail... not in a curve. Physics (and experts) says we can pull around a 90- degree curve with single posts that are placed on 15-20 degree separations.

*why do braces appear in straight stretches when the wire is never tied off to the braces?

*why do builders still use 7' brace rails on 49" tall fabric when physics, geometry and experts recommend 10' brace rails?

*(my favorite) Why do I drive around the southeast and see fixed knot, high tensile woven wire installed on posts that are set on 10-12ft centers???? One of the benefits of such fence is to be able to spread the posts out to 25ft and have a much more flexible, effective barrier
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Wed May 30, 2018 9:12 pm

mack wrote:
bball wrote:In the first pic, appears to be a slope. Shouldn't the post be pounded to remain perpendicular to the ground instead of true plumb? (Should be leaned more to the right hand side in pic) or does that not actually matter. What say the professionals?

Ron, the fence looks darn good.
Do you guys not use steel pipe posts there?


Post should ALWAYS be perpendicular to ground... especially on fixed knot high tensile like pictured here. Aesthetics win most of the time however.

The reason why perpendicular = the wire should never be stapled tight to post. This is what allows the fence to flex when pressured. If the stay wires are not parallel to the post, then the staples can bind on the stay wires when the fence is impacted... causing the stretch between posts to take the impact instead of the entire pull between brace assemblies.


An amazing number of fences are constructed in a fashion that only makes sense because "it has always been done this way". With the invention of fixed knot woven wire, the rules have changed. There is a method to the madness of what the companies that manufacture this are teaching. A couple of points to make you scratch your head and question traditional thinking >>>>>>>

*why do you need a strand of barbed at 55" or so when you can put a strand of electric at 36" where the animal actually pressures? How many cattle actually try to reach over the fence instead of scratching at 30-40"?

*why do people pull around curves with braces? The brace is only geometrically functional when the strain is 180 degrees to the direction of the braced rail... not in a curve. Physics (and experts) says we can pull around a 90- degree curve with single posts that are placed on 15-20 degree separations.

*why do braces appear in straight stretches when the wire is never tied off to the braces?

*why do builders still use 7' brace rails on 49" tall fabric when physics, geometry and experts recommend 10' brace rails?

*(my favorite) Why do I drive around the southeast and see fixed knot, high tensile woven wire installed on posts that are set on 10-12ft centers???? One of the benefits of such fence is to be able to spread the posts out to 25ft and have a much more flexible, effective barrier



Amen.
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby mack » Wed May 30, 2018 9:18 pm

Banjo wrote:Unless things have changed.......CAIP is not govt money. It is the phase one tobacco money that the states that participated in the tobacco buyout got their hands on. Phase two was what the tobacco farmers got....this all came from the tobacco companies.
--------------------------------------------------------------
so, no I don't feel guilty about getting caip funds...that's was my money and all other former tobacco farmers money to start with. Here in my county they give it to all farmers who apply whether they ever raised tobacco or not.


Phase 2 was intended for the actual tobacco farmers
Phase 1 was for the COUNTIES as a collective. It was intended to boost the ag economy to assist the COUNTY in diversifying away from tobacco. Phase 1 was based only on BURLEY tobacco base... not on dark fired or aircured. Thankfully our legislature protected as much of this money as possible and kept it available. Most of the people that were raising tobacco 20+ years ago are almost completely out of agriculture at this point due to retirement or mortality. CAIP has helped a tremendous amount producers that were not even involved in tobacco during that period... which has resulted in an overall boost in KY ag products.

If the Phase 1 money would have been reserved for tobacco farmers only... then it would only be in the hands of a few now and probably be used to increase and benefit tobacco production (which is the inverse of the intent). Several tobacco farmers across the state now have tiled tobacco fields thanks to CAIP/phase 1. Sort of ironic if you think about it.
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby mack » Wed May 30, 2018 9:28 pm

CAIP is not a perfect program by any means... but it is by far the best. TN passed theirs away to balance the budget then used a tobacco tax to fund the TAEP program which was somewhat modeled from KY.

The best part of TN is that it is not county specific based on burley base. The producer in Giles Co has the same shot at funding as the producer in Greene Co.

Here in KY, a county like Harrison gets 10 fold the amount of funding as Crittenden for example due to the burley base 20 years ago. It's time for a restructuring.
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby Bright Raven » Thu May 31, 2018 8:15 am

mack wrote:
*why do people pull around curves with braces? The brace is only geometrically functional when the strain is 180 degrees to the direction of the braced rail... not in a curve. Physics (and experts) says we can pull around a 90- degree curve with single posts that are placed on 15-20 degree separations.


Angles or curves?

Braces distribute force in a change of direction. Curves, not so. In example, an end post at the vertex of an angle with two braces anchored by brace posts on a 120 degree change of direction distributes the force between 3 posts assuming the brace wire is appropriately employed. The strongest geometric figure in construction is the Triangle. What a braced vertex post does is create two triangles on both sides of a vertex post by splitting the squares created by the three vertical posts in a double brace into 4 triangles. The brace wire forms the hypotenuse of the triangles.
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby callmefence » Thu May 31, 2018 9:41 am

mack wrote:
bball wrote:In the first pic, appears to be a slope. Shouldn't the post be pounded to remain perpendicular to the ground instead of true plumb? (Should be leaned more to the right hand side in pic) or does that not actually matter. What say the professionals?

Ron, the fence looks darn good.
Do you guys not use steel pipe posts there?


Post should ALWAYS be perpendicular to ground... especially on fixed knot high tensile like pictured here. Aesthetics win most of the time however.

The reason why perpendicular = the wire should never be stapled tight to post. This is what allows the fence to flex when pressured. If the stay wires are not parallel to the post, then the staples can bind on the stay wires when the fence is impacted... causing the stretch between posts to take the impact instead of the entire pull between brace assemblies.


An amazing number of fences are constructed in a fashion that only makes sense because "it has always been done this way". With the invention of fixed knot woven wire, the rules have changed. There is a method to the madness of what the companies that manufacture this are teaching. A couple of points to make you scratch your head and question traditional thinking >>>>>>>

*why do you need a strand of barbed at 55" or so when you can put a strand of electric at 36" where the animal actually pressures? How many cattle actually try to reach over the fence instead of scratching at 30-40"?

*why do people pull around curves with braces? The brace is only geometrically functional when the strain is 180 degrees to the direction of the braced rail... not in a curve. Physics (and experts) says we can pull around a 90- degree curve with single posts that are placed on 15-20 degree separations.

*why do braces appear in straight stretches when the wire is never tied off to the braces?

*why do builders still use 7' brace rails on 49" tall fabric when physics, geometry and experts recommend 10' brace rails?

*(my favorite) Why do I drive around the southeast and see fixed knot, high tensile woven wire installed on posts that are set on 10-12ft centers???? One of the benefits of such fence is to be able to spread the posts out to 25ft and have a much more flexible, effective barrier


1-wrong .. most cases post should be plumb. Of course if you're using wood and staples. Your just doing things how they have always been done.

#2-- correct on 30 inch barb. Your dead wrong on top wire. How many cattle go over a net fence??? Do you know cattle?? A whole dam bunch is how many. Also you have deer and limbs..I wouldn't build a fence without a top wire if you payed me. ( There's a reason and it's not physics or geometry, it's cattle.)

#3 agreed less than 15 degrees just a well set post is fine.

#4... agreed line braces are a waste.

#5 agreed. But a mute point when you add a welded diagonal brace.

#6 agreed you can space post farther.
But why. The cost of adding a steel tpost every 12 is very minimal. The flexible barrier is sales mumbo jumbo. The fixed knot wire ( which I love) pitches higher visibility over square knot. But pitches less post. Horseshyt......put some post in the ground and a barb on top.
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu May 31, 2018 9:56 am

Fenceman when you first came around these parts you posted a picture of barbed wire, pig ringed to the top of field fence. Do you still do that with the high tensile field fence?
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby callmefence » Thu May 31, 2018 10:00 am

True Grit Farms wrote:Fenceman when you first came around these parts you posted a picture of barbed wire, pig ringed to the top of field fence. Do you still do that with the high tensile field fence?


Yes. If a customer does not want to pay for that wire. I pay for it.
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Re: My Fence Project

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu May 31, 2018 10:03 am

callmefence wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:Fenceman when you first came around these parts you posted a picture of barbed wire, pig ringed to the top of field fence. Do you still do that with the high tensile field fence?


Yes. If a customer does not want to pay for that wire. I pay for it.


My pop always called stuff like that "he'll for stout"
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