White on Angus

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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun May 20, 2018 4:56 pm

I have been breeding beef cattle since the late 60's and a percentage of Angus always had "some" white. Back then, if they had a red calf born, they would hide it or kill it. They didn't want anyone to think they didn't have purebred Angus. No one knew about the recessive red gene back then. Little did they know that they would be worth good money some years later.
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Workinonit Farm » Sun May 20, 2018 4:59 pm

Chocolate Cow2 wrote:In 2009 I purchased a fairly expensive angus bull from a registered breeder in Gordon, Nebraska. That bull had no white anywhere on him but if he was mated to a cow with the tiniest bit of white, he took the white to the extreme. I had calves with white socks, complete white underbellies, white on the forehead. I was pretty darn unhappy with that bull and he more surprises in store for me. The white was just the beginning.


Hmmmmmm............. sounds like that bull gave you more than you bargained for.
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Ky hills » Sun May 20, 2018 6:33 pm

Workinonit Farm wrote:
Chocolate Cow2 wrote:In 2009 I purchased a fairly expensive angus bull from a registered breeder in Gordon, Nebraska. That bull had no white anywhere on him but if he was mated to a cow with the tiniest bit of white, he took the white to the extreme. I had calves with white socks, complete white underbellies, white on the forehead. I was pretty darn unhappy with that bull and he more surprises in store for me. The white was just the beginning.


Hmmmmmm............. sounds like that bull gave you more than you bargained for.


Definitely does sound that way. From what I have seen of the disqualifying white on Angus it isn't near that extreme. I have seen some white on the belly or maybe a little on the flank area, those occurances make me a little skeptical of the actual breeding behind them. The extremes of white socks and white on the foreheads make me wonder if there could have been a mistake as to who the sire of that bull was. Doesn't sound like an Angus bull to me, even one from a line that is known to sire some excess white.
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Son of Butch » Sun May 20, 2018 9:25 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I have been breeding beef cattle since the late 60's and ....
Back then, if they had a red calf born, they would .......kill it.
No one knew about the recessive red gene back then.

:) :) :)
WOW!
Tell us more Miss Information about the dark ages of 1968.
Were those Red calves killed with stone axes and burned on alters?
I guess that was before the enlightened 90's when feeding out cattle was invented.

No One Knew!
IF only someone would have read Gregor Mendel's 1866 paper which included PUREBRED Recessive Traits.
Funny how after his death in 1884 his work ever became known as Mendel's Laws of Inheritance by 1900 and
went on to being taught in universities and yet no one knew in the late '60s.

Oh well, it has been foretold the final generation would believe themselves to be better than their fathers.

p.s.
Did you know colors were invented by a Wizard in Oz in 1939?

I've seen news reels from the 1930's about the Great Depression. Life was just black and white with shades of grey.
Even the grass was grey, no wonder everyone was so depressed!
:) :) :)
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Ebenezer » Mon May 21, 2018 8:49 am

Ky hills wrote:
Workinonit Farm wrote:
Chocolate Cow2 wrote:In 2009 I purchased a fairly expensive angus bull from a registered breeder in Gordon, Nebraska. That bull had no white anywhere on him but if he was mated to a cow with the tiniest bit of white, he took the white to the extreme. I had calves with white socks, complete white underbellies, white on the forehead. I was pretty darn unhappy with that bull and he more surprises in store for me. The white was just the beginning.


Hmmmmmm............. sounds like that bull gave you more than you bargained for.


Definitely does sound that way. From what I have seen of the disqualifying white on Angus it isn't near that extreme. I have seen some white on the belly or maybe a little on the flank area, those occurances make me a little skeptical of the actual breeding behind them. The extremes of white socks and white on the foreheads make me wonder if there could have been a mistake as to who the sire of that bull was. Doesn't sound like an Angus bull to me, even one from a line that is known to sire some excess white.

My bet it was a well known, highly promoted and widely used bull of that era. This is not a tale of the Lone Ranger!
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Ebenezer » Mon May 21, 2018 8:50 am

Son of Butch wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I have been breeding beef cattle since the late 60's and ....
Back then, if they had a red calf born, they would .......kill it.
No one knew about the recessive red gene back then.

:) :) :)
WOW!
Tell us more Miss Information about the dark ages of 1968.
Were those Red calves killed with stone axes and burned on alters?
I guess that was before the enlightened 90's when feeding out cattle was invented.

No One Knew!
IF only someone would have read Gregor Mendel's 1866 paper which included PUREBRED Recessive Traits.
Funny how after his death in 1884 his work ever became known as Mendel's Laws of Inheritance by 1900 and
went on to being taught in universities and yet no one knew in the late '60s.

Oh well, it has been foretold the final generation would believe themselves to be better than their fathers.

p.s.
Did you know colors were invented by a Wizard in Oz in 1939?

I've seen news reels from the 1930's about the Great Depression. Life was just black and white with shades of grey.
Even the grass was grey, no wonder everyone was so depressed!
:) :) :)
Just as long as you do not go to extremes to make your point!
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Ky hills
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Ky hills » Mon May 21, 2018 10:19 am

Ebenezer wrote:
Ky hills wrote:
Workinonit Farm wrote:
Hmmmmmm............. sounds like that bull gave you more than you bargained for.


Definitely does sound that way. From what I have seen of the disqualifying white on Angus it isn't near that extreme. I have seen some white on the belly or maybe a little on the flank area, those occurances make me a little skeptical of the actual breeding behind them. The extremes of white socks and white on the foreheads make me wonder if there could have been a mistake as to who the sire of that bull was. Doesn't sound like an Angus bull to me, even one from a line that is known to sire some excess white.

My bet it was a well known, highly promoted and widely used bull of that era. This is not a tale of the Lone Ranger!


Very well could have been the case, I am not doubting the story of the op at all. Was just giving the benefit of the doubt, with the possibility of an accidental/unknown mating to a Simmental bull or another breed that could sire those kinds of markings.
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Chocolate Cow2 » Mon May 21, 2018 11:49 am

The bull I referenced was sired by Connealy Deep Canyon out of a S A F Strategy 9015 daughter. It was a 'not-so-desirable' of a pedigree with Famous, Focus and Fame close up.
The bull never left anything in my herd because I used him alone on a group of cows. I initially wanted to be able to identify his calves and save daughters. A high percentage of his calf crop was defective. They were born alive but looked like dwarfs and couldn't stand. The bull was the only common denominator once all other possibilities were explored.
He went to town. My veterinarian did draw several tubes of blood for testing but nothing has ever been found. I thought this last defect, Sodium Channel Neuropathy, would be the answer and I sent the last blood tube to Dr. Beever. The bull was negative for the defect.
Several takeaways from the deal: Sometimes there is no answer-no matter how hard you search or how many questions you ask.
I learned to not chase high EPD's.
I learned I can raise better cattle than I can buy. I still re-learn that one from time to time.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue May 22, 2018 11:26 am

SOB - a little exaggerated IMHO
Breeders may have had registered cattle, but they did not have a clue about genetic traits. They were afraid people would think their registered cattle were fake. This was in Louisburg, Kansas. They would not "feed them out", because they would have to keep it around. I mean they literally hid the carcass. Believe what you want. It is fact.
People with commercial herds kept them, but just "assumed" a neighbors bull got in.
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Son of Butch
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Son of Butch » Tue May 22, 2018 9:18 pm

Yes, I was having fun and took it to the extreme just to amuse myself.
Sorry if it went too far...no hard feelings.
sob
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Re: White on Angus

Postby skeeter swatter » Tue May 22, 2018 9:34 pm

The Red Angus Association was started in 1954.
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Gators Rule » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:30 am

Son of Butch wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I have been breeding beef cattle since the late 60's and ....
Back then, if they had a red calf born, they would .......kill it.
No one knew about the recessive red gene back then.

:) :) :)
WOW!
Tell us more Miss Information about the dark ages of 1968.
Were those Red calves killed with stone axes and burned on alters?
I guess that was before the enlightened 90's when feeding out cattle was invented.

No One Knew!
IF only someone would have read Gregor Mendel's 1866 paper which included PUREBRED Recessive Traits.
Funny how after his death in 1884 his work ever became known as Mendel's Laws of Inheritance by 1900 and
went on to being taught in universities and yet no one knew in the late '60s.

Oh well, it has been foretold the final generation would believe themselves to be better than their fathers.

p.s.
Did you know colors were invented by a Wizard in Oz in 1939?

I've seen news reels from the 1930's about the Great Depression. Life was just black and white with shades of grey.
Even the grass was grey, no wonder everyone was so depressed!
:) :) :)


I wonder what percentage of farmers/ranchers had the ability to google this info in 1968?? :compute:
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Re: White on Angus

Postby farmerjan » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:32 am

I also heard about the "hiding", or disposing of, the red calves might be born. And it happened in the purebred registered holsteins also. The red & whites that cropped up occasionally were hidden, killed, or gotten rid of as fast as possible. Then the R&W holstein assoc was formed, now it is just all registered in the holstein assoc. I milk test a farm who has b&w, r&w holsteins and brown swiss. We run them as 3 separate strings and their r&whites often out produce their b&whites. They show and do some ET but they are a "commercial dairy" as far as breeding for milk production too. Not just for type and such, but these are functional, productive cows as well as being show cattle. Had one farmer that had reg b&w holsteins and hated the reds, said they were inferior..... old time thinking.
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Chocolate Cow2 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:38 am

skeeter swatter wrote:The Red Angus Association was started in 1954.


Correct skeeterswatter. Actually, it was in the mid-1940's that Waldo and Sally Forbes started searching for reds from black herds. The secretary of the Angus Association helped them with their search. It had to be done very secretively as no registered Black Angus breeder wanted to acknowledge a red came from his herd. 'Larkspur' was sold to the Forbes in August of 1945 by Norman Smith with the understanding they would not disclose the origin until his herd was sold years later. Another red bull, 'Churasco' was purchased in December of 1946 from a registered Black Angus breeder in Steamboat Springs, CO, by the name of Angustorra Ranch. 'Serenade' came in 1947 from Bray's Island Plantation in Yamassee, South Carolina. from the book The History of Red Angus by Dr. Bob Hough
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Son of Butch
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Re: White on Angus

Postby Son of Butch » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:26 pm

Gators Rule wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I have been breeding beef cattle since the late 60's and ....
Back then, if they had a red calf born, they would .......kill it.
No one knew.....
Did you know colors were invented by a Wizard in Oz in 1939?


I wonder what percentage of farmers/ranchers had the ability to google this info in 1968?? :compute:

0% as google had not yet been invented.
But they didn't have to because it was taught in both High School science classes and FFA ag. classes.
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