Quiz: AI versus Buy a Bull

Got a calving or breeding question? Get an answer.
User avatar
msscamp
wannabe
wannabe
Posts: 10701
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:13 am
Location: Wyoming

Postby msscamp » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:48 am

SEC wrote:Don't matter if you are already sharing fences with them

.


Yes, it does. Some fences are better than others and are specifically built to keep the neighbors bulls out.
0 x
Women and cats are going to do what they want, men and dogs would be wise to accept this.

User avatar
Hutch
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:36 pm
Location: NE Indiana

Postby Hutch » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:02 am

I don't see how you cannot have a bull if you are AI-ing, unless you are getting 95-100 % conception rates. I look at AI as a way of improving my herd, I still have a bull. Buy the best bull you can afford, AI and let the bull clean up. If you only AI every year you will have more open cows (Dun is exempt) open cows don't make you any $$$.
0 x
The second mouse gets the cheese

User avatar
cypressfarms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:28 am
Location: New Roads, LA

Postby cypressfarms » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:02 am

I'm all for people A.I.'ing and improving their herd, but you will not get 100% settled, and therefore you will need a clean up bull. Your choice as to what to do from there. I don't know what type of bulls your considering buying semen from, but I would use a different breed of clean up bull, like hereford, to know for sure which calves are your A.I.'s and which were cleaned up calves.
0 x
waiting for something really important to say

User avatar
dun
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 47343
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:34 am
Location: MO Ozarks

Postby dun » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:08 am

cypressfarms wrote:I'm all for people A.I.'ing and improving their herd, but you will not get 100% settled.


Wrong, if you select for fertility in the females and cull those that don;t settle with a maximum of 2 services there's no reason to not have 100% settle. Jeanne also I believe does all AI. It akes a little more managment, but at least you don;t have to contend with a bull 365 days a year.

dun
0 x

User avatar
CowCop
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:33 pm
Location: VERMONT
Contact:

Postby CowCop » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:49 am

Since you are small, have a tech AI your cows in the beginning, while you learn to AI & improve your own technique.

There is some expense involved with AI, but the genetic progress is quicker and you don't have to mess with a bull on your property.
The expenses are:
AI School, semen tank ( consider used ) AI breeding kit and semen.

Beginners use alot more semen until they get better at AI.

If you buy a bull, get the one that best acomplishes the goals you have set for your herd. Don't skimp on cost. There is a formula to figure out how much you can spend for a bull.
I don't have it on hand, but am sure someone else has the link.
Ours comes out to $2,000. We have spent more when needed.

If you don't want to take care of the bull in the off season, then sell him.

For the past 2 years we have sold the bulls we purchased, right after the breeding season, so we don't have to deal with them through the winter. Got what we paid for them and
don't have to take up feed, labor and valuable barn space for another 8 months. It is costly to keep a bull for those extra 8 months, especially in the snow states, when he isn't being used and the damage some of these penned up bulls do is significant.
0 x
CowCop
Home is where the herd is.

User avatar
dun
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 47343
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:34 am
Location: MO Ozarks

Postby dun » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:21 pm

This brings to mind a question. After you've culled down, how do you select the bull that best fits for your herd? Do you use one that comlements to top cows, the average cows or the bottom cows?

dun
0 x

User avatar
preston39
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1537
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:19 am
Location: Kentucky, Smithland
Contact:

Postby preston39 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:53 pm

dun,

Excellent point.

Thats one of the reasons even top breeders use a combination approach. For the average commercial herdsman it can be a tough choice. The number of cows to be bred can be an influence also. The sharing of bulls around here among the small types is becoming the in thing. Even that has some concerns. Leasing is becoming a new trend also. I would want to know where the bull had been for his breeding life of sharing or being leased, for starters.
0 x
G. Preston
"Without Christ you are alone....can you handle it?"
If you must doubt something...doubt your limits.

rkm
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1030
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: central ny

Postby rkm » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:17 pm

I visited reg. angus herd couple days ago. Just 13 cows. He is full time farmer, also small veal operation. Now I'm new to beef bred hol. all my life. I don't know what his goals are but with those 13 cows he had a well bred herd bull and used 7 or 8 ai sires each year. Is that wise?
0 x

User avatar
novaman
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1741
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:45 pm
Location: North Dakota

Postby novaman » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:19 pm

rkm wrote:I visited reg. angus herd couple days ago. Just 13 cows. He is full time farmer, also small veal operation. Now I'm new to beef bred hol. all my life. I don't know what his goals are but with those 13 cows he had a well bred herd bull and used 7 or 8 ai sires each year. Is that wise?

Having a well bred bull, which I would assume would have cost a pretty penny, and using AI sounds like a pretty expensive operation to get 13 cows bred.
0 x

User avatar
cypressfarms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:28 am
Location: New Roads, LA

Postby cypressfarms » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:31 pm

dun wrote:
cypressfarms wrote:I'm all for people A.I.'ing and improving their herd, but you will not get 100% settled.


Wrong, if you select for fertility in the females and cull those that don;t settle with a maximum of 2 services there's no reason to not have 100% settle. Jeanne also I believe does all AI. It akes a little more managment, but at least you don;t have to contend with a bull 365 days a year.

dun


Dun,

I'm not doubting you, but I've never seen an outfit that was able to attain 100%. I need to come over to take lessons from you Dun, are you accepting work hands?
0 x
waiting for something really important to say

User avatar
dun
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 47343
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:34 am
Location: MO Ozarks

Postby dun » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:52 am

cypressfarms wrote:
dun wrote:
cypressfarms wrote:I'm all for people A.I.'ing and improving their herd, but you will not get 100% settled.


Wrong, if you select for fertility in the females and cull those that don;t settle with a maximum of 2 services there's no reason to not have 100% settle. Jeanne also I believe does all AI. It akes a little more managment, but at least you don;t have to contend with a bull 365 days a year.

dun


Dun,

I'm not doubting you, but I've never seen an outfit that was able to attain 100%. I need to come over to take lessons from you Dun, are you accepting work hands?


Check with the dairys in your area, a lot of them do 100% AI and don;t have a bull on the place. It starts with the selection of the female side of the equation.
As to hiring, how are you at tearing out old overgrown fence and hanging new fence?

dun
0 x

User avatar
mcangus
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:03 am
Location: Northern New York

Postby mcangus » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:24 pm

I wouldn't be afraid to use AI no matter how big the herd is. The guys who think they can get a better conception rate with a bull are fooling themselves. If all you are concerned with is a calf maker or do you wish to put some genetics back in the herd. Oh and by the way sharpen up that pencil and i think you will see that AI is cheaper.
0 x

User avatar
greenwillowherefords
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1621
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Postby greenwillowherefords » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:02 pm

Many registered breeders have bulls for sale who are sons of top AI bulls.
0 x
Green Willow Herefords
Coweta, Oklahoma
Birthplace of TSG Tamerlane, TSG Buckshot Tone 1, Herd bulls

User avatar
la4angus
GURU
GURU
Posts: 5063
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:56 pm
Location: South La

Postby la4angus » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:52 pm

Hutch wrote: If you only AI every year you will have more open cows (Dun is exempt) open cows don't make you any $$$.
Yep, you're right. Awhile back he claimed that some hired him to go in and AI after the clean-up bull got taken out.
0 x
Hoff First Edition 058 242
___________________________

User avatar
shorthorn cowgirl
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:37 pm
Location: Central Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: Quiz: AI versus Buy a Bull

Postby shorthorn cowgirl » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:07 pm

GaryDG wrote:Assume all cows/heifers have the same background.

cow / heiffer herd size is 15

All are registered Black Angus.

Why would you AI as instead of purchasing a good bull?


Cheaper and safer.
0 x


Return to “Breeding / Calving Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests