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Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:25 pm
by HDRider
I have to ask both of you if you have traded commodities? If you have not, go do it, and get back to us.

If you have then I'd like to know how you would take possession? Someone, somewhere down the line takes possession. Sometimes they wish they did not have to, but they do.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:22 pm
by Logar
Silver wrote:
Logar wrote:
Aaron wrote:

You labeled Canada as a socialist, lefty country and I take exception to that


Prove me wrong.

You cannot.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:24 pm
by Silver
Logar wrote:
Silver wrote:
Logar wrote:


Prove me wrong.

You cannot.


You started it, prove to me that your country is less lefty, socialist than Canada. You cannot.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:32 pm
by Silver
HDRider wrote:I have to ask both of you if you have traded commodities? If you have not, go do it, and get back to us.

If you have then I'd like to know how you would take possession? Someone, somewhere down the line takes possession. Sometimes they wish they did not have to, but they do.


I think the point is that the vast majority of the people who buy and sell contracts never take possession, only the last guy holding the ball. I know the intent of the commodities markets is to give the person who plans on taking delivery of the product a known expense going forward for his / her business plan.
But if that same contract is bought and sold hundreds of times by speculators before the product is delivered is there not room for wild market fluctuations as the herd mentality of traders takes on a life of it's own? I read somewhere how many times the average contract gets traded now compared to 50 or so years ago and there's quite a significant difference between then and now.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:36 pm
by Aaron
Silver wrote:
Logar wrote:
Silver wrote:


Prove me wrong.

You cannot.


You started it, prove to me that your country is less lefty, socialist than Canada. You cannot.


I figured you had no idea who Logar is, thank you for confirming that - it makes this thread that much more fun to read.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:49 pm
by Aaron
HDRider wrote:I have to ask both of you if you have traded commodities? If you have not, go do it, and get back to us.

If you have then I'd like to know how you would take possession? Someone, somewhere down the line takes possession. Sometimes they wish they did not have to, but they do.


No I have not, and I have no interest in it. That being said, I have no problem with speculators. Everybody wants guarantees on everything - want the State to regulate this and that. There are no guarantees in life.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:29 pm
by Logar
Aaron wrote:
Silver wrote:
Logar wrote:
Prove me wrong.

You cannot.


You started it, prove to me that your country is less lefty, socialist than Canada. You cannot.


I figured you had no idea who Logar is, thank you for confirming that - it makes this thread that much more fun to read.


Aaron,

LOL - be safe and be happy.

Out of this one.

Cheers

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:40 pm
by TexasBred
Silver wrote:
HDRider wrote:I have to ask both of you if you have traded commodities? If you have not, go do it, and get back to us.

If you have then I'd like to know how you would take possession? Someone, somewhere down the line takes possession. Sometimes they wish they did not have to, but they do.


I think the point is that the vast majority of the people who buy and sell contracts never take possession, only the last guy holding the ball. I know the intent of the commodities markets is to give the person who plans on taking delivery of the product a known expense going forward for his / her business plan.
But if that same contract is bought and sold hundreds of times by speculators before the product is delivered is there not room for wild market fluctuations as the herd mentality of traders takes on a life of it's own? I read somewhere how many times the average contract gets traded now compared to 50 or so years ago and there's quite a significant difference between then and now.

A contract sold to you for instance cannot be sold again without your consent. If you plan to use it you just sit on it until you need it then take delivery at the purchase price. In the meantime other contracts may have been issued that were wildly higher than yours or perhaps wildly lower. If it goes up considerable and you'd rather sell and take your profit you can do so and forget about taking delivery but yes at some point in time someone takes delivery.

:BTW Logar ain't shyt. Can't decide if he's a Canadian, American, or on the payroll of the United Nations. One day he's a fighter pilot, the next he's leading a special forces group because they can't find americans to do it. Right now he's over on Ranchers telling them about getting all shot up in Afghanistan "again" and they're eating it up too. He's a hoot anyway if you like BS.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:09 pm
by Silver
TexasBred wrote:A contract sold to you for instance cannot be sold again without your consent. If you plan to use it you just sit on it until you need it then take delivery at the purchase price.


Ya, I worded that wrong, basically I meant that all the folks jumping in and out of, say, Oct Feeders can wildly fluctuate the value of the contract I may hold based on nothing but pack mentality one way or the other. It's just the way things are in today's technology age and I suppose it's the best system available. I just like to grumble.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:05 am
by Bright Raven
Silver wrote:
Logar wrote:
Silver wrote:


Prove me wrong.

You cannot.


You started it, prove to me that your country is less lefty, socialist than Canada. You cannot.


The terminology has lost all its meaning over the last 20 to 30 years. Right, left, conservative and liberal. The labels don't serve to advance any understanding of differences. No one wants to have an intelligent discussion. They just want to insult those whom they disagree with. Cattle Today should be called Bigotry Today. There is no tolerance here for views other than the main stream. It's a shame. It seems like the purpose is to drive the wedge deeper. Both sides are guilty.

BTW: Bigotry is not some immoral word you go to purgatory for uttering. It just means you are so bullheaded you will not entertain that someone else does not share your view.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:21 pm
by True Grit Farms
Bright Raven wrote:
Silver wrote:
Logar wrote:
Prove me wrong.

You cannot.


You started it, prove to me that your country is less lefty, socialist than Canada. You cannot.


The terminology has lost all its meaning over the last 20 to 30 years. Right, left, conservative and liberal. The labels don't serve to advance any understanding of differences. No one wants to have an intelligent discussion. They just want to insult those whom they disagree with. Cattle Today should be called Bigotry Today. There is no tolerance here for views other than the main stream. It's a shame. It seems like the purpose is to drive the wedge deeper. Both sides are guilty.

BTW: Bigotry is not some immoral word you go to purgatory for uttering. It just means you are so bullheaded you will not entertain that someone else does not share your view.


The problem is, what is main stream? And how or who determines the definition of main stream. I'd be happy to live with the principles and values of the 19th century.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:32 pm
by Bright Raven
True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Silver wrote:
You started it, prove to me that your country is less lefty, socialist than Canada. You cannot.


The terminology has lost all its meaning over the last 20 to 30 years. Right, left, conservative and liberal. The labels don't serve to advance any understanding of differences. No one wants to have an intelligent discussion. They just want to insult those whom they disagree with. Cattle Today should be called Bigotry Today. There is no tolerance here for views other than the main stream. It's a shame. It seems like the purpose is to drive the wedge deeper. Both sides are guilty.

BTW: Bigotry is not some immoral word you go to purgatory for uttering. It just means you are so bullheaded you will not entertain that someone else does not share your view.


The problem is, what is main stream? And how or who determines the definition of main stream. I'd be happy to live with the principles and values of the 19th century.


I thought that might wake you up. Lol.

Edited to add: I cannot claim credit for the "Bigotry Today". Someone sent that to me...not telling.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:54 pm
by Bright Raven
True Grit Farms wrote:
The problem is, what is main stream? And how or who determines the definition of main stream. I'd be happy to live with the principles and values of the 19th century.


I stated:

There is no tolerance here for views other than the main stream.

You are correct. Main stream is far too vague. The real point is that these conflicts like the one above become useless, wasted name calling before the issue of debate is even defined. The terms liberal and conservative, left and right are just not specific enough to define the debate. They just get thrown back and forth as insult words.

As Silver started above - no one even knows what is being debated. I read this thread while waiting on my fence contractor this morning and I could not find anywhere that a real issue was defined. I was laughing when they started saying you prove this. No you started it, so you prove that. It just demonstrates how useless those common terms are.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:54 pm
by sstterry
Bright Raven wrote:. It just demonstrates how useless those common terms are.


And while the masses debate "conservative" vs "liberal" and drive the wedges deeper in our society, the large corporations and insurance companies keep taking advantage of all of us and getting more rich and powerful at the expense of the average American!

By the way, a lot of problems in the Milk Industry come from the corruption inside their own cooperatives and the inside dealing with the large suppliers like Dean Foods ect. If you care to look, just google Dairy Farmers of America and Dean Foods class action settlement in the Southeast.

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:18 pm
by Bright Raven
sstterry wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:. It just demonstrates how useless those common terms are.


And while the masses debate "conservative" vs "liberal" and drive the wedges deeper in our society, the large corporations and insurance companies keep taking advantage of all of us and getting more rich and powerful at the expense of the average American!


Never miss an opportunity to make money and grasp power when the sheep are ripe to fleece.