As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

For the dairy folks and/or beef folks with questions about udders, milk and mastitis.
User avatar
Aaron
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4342
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Stratton, ON, Canada
Contact:

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Tue May 15, 2018 6:44 am

Bright Raven wrote:
Silver wrote:
Logar wrote:
Prove me wrong.

You cannot.


You started it, prove to me that your country is less lefty, socialist than Canada. You cannot.


The terminology has lost all its meaning over the last 20 to 30 years. Right, left, conservative and liberal. The labels don't serve to advance any understanding of differences. No one wants to have an intelligent discussion. They just want to insult those whom they disagree with. Cattle Today should be called Bigotry Today. There is no tolerance here for views other than the main stream. It's a shame. It seems like the purpose is to drive the wedge deeper. Both sides are guilty.

BTW: Bigotry is not some immoral word you go to purgatory for uttering. It just means you are so bullheaded you will not entertain that someone else does not share your view.


I'm not big into Kumbaya, but I do support your right to hold hands with other men and talk about how much you agree with each other.
0 x
Nothin' prettier than a red Ford truck, a Massey Ferguson tractor and a red-n-white Hereford sittin' on the farm.

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 7764
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Bright Raven » Tue May 15, 2018 6:47 am

Aaron wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Silver wrote:
You started it, prove to me that your country is less lefty, socialist than Canada. You cannot.


The terminology has lost all its meaning over the last 20 to 30 years. Right, left, conservative and liberal. The labels don't serve to advance any understanding of differences. No one wants to have an intelligent discussion. They just want to insult those whom they disagree with. Cattle Today should be called Bigotry Today. There is no tolerance here for views other than the main stream. It's a shame. It seems like the purpose is to drive the wedge deeper. Both sides are guilty.

BTW: Bigotry is not some immoral word you go to purgatory for uttering. It just means you are so bullheaded you will not entertain that someone else does not share your view.


I'm not big into Kumbaya, but I do support your right to hold hands with other men and talk about how much you agree with each other.


Disagreement is ubiquitous. It is a good thing. Making an insulting match out of it is entertaining but not a good method of communication.
0 x
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
farmerjan
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:54 pm
Location: Shenandoah ValleyVirginia

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby farmerjan » Tue May 15, 2018 10:00 am

sstterry wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:. It just demonstrates how useless those common terms are.


And while the masses debate "conservative" vs "liberal" and drive the wedges deeper in our society, the large corporations and insurance companies keep taking advantage of all of us and getting more rich and powerful at the expense of the average American!

By the way, a lot of problems in the Milk Industry come from the corruption inside their own cooperatives and the inside dealing with the large suppliers like Dean Foods ect. If you care to look, just google Dairy Farmers of America and Dean Foods class action settlement in the Southeast.


Add into the DFA and Dean foods crap, is the whole thing now with the Walmart deal of building their own processing plant(s) and direct contracting with a producer(s)... integrating milk like the poultry and hog industries. The small dairyman cannot compete when they keep dropping the prices, and the true "dairyman" and breeders are being forced out. The average dairy cow now lasts only 2 lactations. We are not breeding for type, or anything that will hold up and withstand years...there is next to no longevity considered. This is not a good thing for the genetic diversity and there will only be those few farmers that can afford to keep a few good cows of different breeds around....What happens to the breeds when these guys are gone? I don't like all the control, but many smaller dairy farmers have said that they would be glad to see the industry have a few more controls, like Canada where you get paid a decent amount for X amount of milk and any surplus you get little or nothing. That way in order to expand you would have to "buy more base" to make it profitable. The biggest problem, is that the price of milk is not based upon the cost of production plus a profit margin; like most other products are. It is these federal milk marketing orders, and the fact that we are "committed to CHEAP FOOD " in this country.
There are other things that have contributed to the mess, but getting bigger and more concentrated farms is not going to be in our best interest in the end. What is happening to the aquifers when these dairies are concentrated in areas where it is dry? Great for the farmer to not fight all the elements; but we are drawing down the water reserves faster than they are being replenished. All the irrigating for the crops too. All the cities in places of semi-desert climates.
And what about the "bio-security" of these farms? When some other country wants to control us, they are going to be able to control the food supply because it is no longer spread out but concentrated in huge mega farms. Control the food and you control the people.....
1 x

User avatar
sstterry
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:04 am
Location: Bulls Gap, TN

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby sstterry » Tue May 15, 2018 1:02 pm

"And what about the "bio-security" of these farms? When some other country wants to control us, they are going to be able to control the food supply because it is no longer spread out but concentrated in huge mega farms. Control the food and you control the people....."

And most if not all of the genetically modified crop patents are owned by foreign entities. Ask a row cropper if you can even buy Non GMO seed in bulk anymore.
0 x

User avatar
bball
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:43 am
Location: Indiana

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby bball » Tue May 15, 2018 2:47 pm

HDRider wrote:I did not intend to start a Canadian civil war. I actually did not think such a thing was possible.

I am very interested in commodity markets. The study of how our markets are controlled, manipulated and fluctuate is fascinating from an academic perspective, and down right frightening from a pragmatic view.

I am by nature, and by choice, a free market guy. That said, there is no such thing as a free market on commodity products. We are manipulated by speculators and government policy. We are at the mercy of weather and global production levels. Any commodity producer is only a season or two away from devastating loss.

Me personally, I am more inclined libertarian than left, but I would like to hear what market controls work. When I say work, I mean some managed methods that seek some level of fairness for producer, marketers, retailers, and consumers. I know life ain't fair, but to accept unfairness, when corrections are available, seems kind of dumb.


There are not enough hearts for me to like this post. Well stated sir!
1 x
We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are. -Anais Nin
No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted. -Aesop

User avatar
HDRider
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4621
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:25 am
Location: NE Arkansas

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby HDRider » Tue May 22, 2018 3:37 pm

I know this is not a dairy thing, it is not even a cattle thing, but it is a thing.

Today I'm calling nurseries. I'm asking questions about clementine varieties, avocados, and other alternatives that are good crops for our area. I'm asking these questions so I can make a master plan to pull out all of our raisin acreage over the next 10 years. It's a sad thing; some of these vines were planted by my great grandfather, they've lasted a long time, they've been through a lot and it is no fault of their own that they are going to be replaced. No. That fault is the packers.

This week, the rumors started. They do it every year, the packers say that they are going to get together and pay bottom price for raisins. They say they are competing with Turkey or Iran and that they just can't pay more. So this year, I decided to do my own research. This is the USDA Raisins: World Markets and Trade report. Here's a fun fact, the USA consumed over 200,000 tons of raisins last year, the report doesn't say how much the USA imported last year, but the last named country on the report is Mexico importing 17,000 tons, so it must be less than that. That means that our California Raisins control over 90% of the second largest raisin consuming market in the world. It also means that since we as a country produced 340,000 tons last year, about 60% was bought at USA prices and shipped domestic. You can buy raisins here for $2.38 a lb, it's the generic brand, nothing fancy. That means they are selling for $4,760 a ton. They bought the raisins for $1500 a ton if you did not get quality bonuses of course the grower carried the USDA fee for inspection and paid for any recondition etc. but lets go with that. This leads me to my final statistic in this article before I get to my real point. Just the US sales last year for a raisin packer should have looked like this

Cost per ton $1500
Cost per ton to process $600
Gross Profit per ton $4,760
Net profit per ton $2,660
Tons Sold US 200,000
US Profit $532,000,000
Cost of all raisins left over $210,000,000
Net profit if they did not sell another raisin $322,000,000
Pretty easy math right? 2+2 = raisin growers are getting screwed over.

http://www.ciapessoni.com/blog/2016/7/3 ... th-raisins
0 x
bball wrote: "The juice wasn't worth the squeeze."
Dun said, "You gotta be flexible. Do whatever you have to do for the best results within your limitations."

Stocker Steve
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8267
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:28 am
Location: Central Minnesota

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Stocker Steve » Tue May 22, 2018 5:39 pm

Global commodity markets and digital technology can make for ugly producer outcomes. Somewhere there are a couple above average commodity producers making a nice profit, but they may be a third world aberration.

I recently saw some info proposing a back to the future Coop solution for dairy issues. We still have a lot of ag infrastructure here - - so I am a member of 2 ag supply coops, 1 semen coop, and 1 grain marketing coop. They are struggling in general. High overhead, unsophisticated leadership, and lots of door prizes does not a globally competitive operation make. Unfortunately labeling and supporting local food seems to be an uphill slide in USA. Canada may operate differently.

Two land sales to two dairy families occurred recently near me. The buyers are agglomerated multigenerational operations that used equity to buy land so sons could come back to the farm. I ran numbers on both parcels and they did not cash flow for cow/calf nor stockers nor soybeans. I am sure they don't cash flow with current dairy prices. So it was a lifestyle and legacy investment using Grandpas equity that will increase our commodity milk supply.

A big question is where is the capital coming from to continue propping up the local land Ponzi scheme? Ag land here is being bought with family money or subsidized beginning farmer loans and prices are continuing to go up. Recreation land is being bought with imported money and prices are dropping if there is no lake shore involved. I think our inflation expectations are changing.
0 x
Stocker Steve

User avatar
Aaron
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4342
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Stratton, ON, Canada
Contact:

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Tue May 22, 2018 11:26 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:Global commodity markets and digital technology can make for ugly producer outcomes. Somewhere there are a couple above average commodity producers making a nice profit, but they may be a third world aberration.

I recently saw some info proposing a back to the future Coop solution for dairy issues. We still have a lot of ag infrastructure here - - so I am a member of 2 ag supply coops, 1 semen coop, and 1 grain marketing coop. They are struggling in general. High overhead, unsophisticated leadership, and lots of door prizes does not a globally competitive operation make. Unfortunately labeling and supporting local food seems to be an uphill slide in USA. Canada may operate differently.

Two land sales to two dairy families occurred recently near me. The buyers are agglomerated multigenerational operations that used equity to buy land so sons could come back to the farm. I ran numbers on both parcels and they did not cash flow for cow/calf nor stockers nor soybeans. I am sure they don't cash flow with current dairy prices. So it was a lifestyle and legacy investment using Grandpas equity that will increase our commodity milk supply.

A big question is where is the capital coming from to continue propping up the local land Ponzi scheme? Ag land here is being bought with family money or subsidized beginning farmer loans and prices are continuing to go up. Recreation land is being bought with imported money and prices are dropping if there is no lake shore involved. I think our inflation expectations are changing.


Local food only works here if you can compete with large-scale grocery prices, or, have a real feel-good BS story. Otherwise, people walk right into the chain store.

Dairy is on its way out here. Milk inspector told another dairy farm that barn was too old, need a new one or get out. New barn was pegged at $2.5 million. Son told dad to sell 'er all - don't need to pull tit$ that bad. So we will be down to 5 dairy farms here by August. And the clock is ticking down on the rest.

More farms will be up for sale this year. One guy's house burnt down, no insurance, so he will likely pack it in. Another guy just listed his yesterday, back in the bush, 580 acres - was a farm and hunt camp enterprise. Another old successful full-timer, 80 cows all his life, no family, died last week - won't be long before his brother has it on the listings. Some land will go to grain, some to recreation. Unlikely any will see cows again.
0 x
Nothin' prettier than a red Ford truck, a Massey Ferguson tractor and a red-n-white Hereford sittin' on the farm.

Stocker Steve
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8267
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:28 am
Location: Central Minnesota

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Stocker Steve » Wed May 23, 2018 5:37 am

Aaron wrote:More farms will be up for sale this year. One guy's house burnt down, no insurance, so he will likely pack it in. Another guy just listed his yesterday, back in the bush, 580 acres - was a farm and hunt camp enterprise. Another old successful full-timer, 80 cows all his life, no family, died last week - won't be long before his brother has it on the listings. Some land will go to grain, some to recreation. Unlikely any will see cows again.


So where are the land buyers coming from for non cattle uses?
0 x
Stocker Steve

Stocker Steve
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8267
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:28 am
Location: Central Minnesota

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Stocker Steve » Wed May 23, 2018 5:40 am

Aaron wrote:Dairy is on its way out here. Milk inspector told another dairy farm that barn was too old, need a new one or get out. New barn was pegged at $2.5 million. Son told dad to sell 'er all - don't need to pull tit$ that bad. So we will be down to 5 dairy farms here by August. And the clock is ticking down on the rest.


Why is Canadian dairy "thriving" in other places but not in the Rainy River district?
0 x
Stocker Steve

User avatar
Aaron
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4342
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Stratton, ON, Canada
Contact:

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Wed May 23, 2018 8:14 am

Stocker Steve wrote:
Aaron wrote:More farms will be up for sale this year. One guy's house burnt down, no insurance, so he will likely pack it in. Another guy just listed his yesterday, back in the bush, 580 acres - was a farm and hunt camp enterprise. Another old successful full-timer, 80 cows all his life, no family, died last week - won't be long before his brother has it on the listings. Some land will go to grain, some to recreation. Unlikely any will see cows again.


So where are the land buyers coming from for non cattle uses?
. USA. Must be still lucrative enough to hold on to non-productive land as I made an offer to buy adjoining property to mine from woman in Colorado, that her family has owned since 1962. She has never seen property before in person, just a tax bill, each year. Not interested.
0 x
Nothin' prettier than a red Ford truck, a Massey Ferguson tractor and a red-n-white Hereford sittin' on the farm.

User avatar
Aaron
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4342
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Stratton, ON, Canada
Contact:

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Wed May 23, 2018 8:22 am

Stocker Steve wrote:
Aaron wrote:Dairy is on its way out here. Milk inspector told another dairy farm that barn was too old, need a new one or get out. New barn was pegged at $2.5 million. Son told dad to sell 'er all - don't need to pull tit$ that bad. So we will be down to 5 dairy farms here by August. And the clock is ticking down on the rest.


Why is Canadian dairy "thriving" in other places but not in the Rainy River district?



Distance to processor is big issue. Closest is Winnipeg through Kenora so it is a 5 hour haul one way for a tanker.

Other big issue is lack of stupid dairy farm kids wanting to take over and become slaves to debt for rest of their lives. No person with half a brain is going to milk 60 cows, three times a day for the rest of their life on a 2.5 million dollar note.
0 x
Nothin' prettier than a red Ford truck, a Massey Ferguson tractor and a red-n-white Hereford sittin' on the farm.

Stocker Steve
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8267
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:28 am
Location: Central Minnesota

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Stocker Steve » Wed May 23, 2018 1:47 pm

Aaron wrote: Must be still lucrative enough to hold on to non-productive land as I made an offer to buy adjoining property to mine from woman in Colorado, that her family has owned since 1962. She has never seen property before in person, just a tax bill, each year. Not interested.


She might be waiting for a mounty or a lumberjack to sweep her off here feet.
You could put on a buffalo plaid shirt and make a business trip to Colorado...
0 x
Stocker Steve

User avatar
Aaron
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4342
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Stratton, ON, Canada
Contact:

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby Aaron » Wed May 23, 2018 7:14 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Aaron wrote: Must be still lucrative enough to hold on to non-productive land as I made an offer to buy adjoining property to mine from woman in Colorado, that her family has owned since 1962. She has never seen property before in person, just a tax bill, each year. Not interested.


She might be waiting for a mounty or a lumberjack to sweep her off here feet.
You could put on a buffalo plaid shirt and make a business trip to Colorado...


Little old for my tastes at 73.
0 x
Nothin' prettier than a red Ford truck, a Massey Ferguson tractor and a red-n-white Hereford sittin' on the farm.

User avatar
1982vett
GURU
GURU
Posts: 8502
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:57 pm
Location: Central Texas

Re: As Vermont's Milk Industry Continues To Free-Fall, Canadian Dairies Are Thriving

Postby 1982vett » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:11 am

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 819204.cms

Apparently the army can’t make a go of it either.....
0 x
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. ~Albert Einstein
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day. ~Harry S. Truman


Return to “Got Milk?”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest