black powder help

Discuss your favorite team, latest hunting info and ranch leases.
keysbottles
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:27 pm
Location: NE Arkansas

black powder help

Post by keysbottles » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:01 pm

My 16 yo grandson is interested in b/p hunting. I have almost no experience. I could use suggestions/warning about type gun, caliber, bullets, powder or anything you think I should know before helping him get involved. Help will greatly appreciated. don


The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. -- Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 24442
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 671 times

Re: black powder help

Post by Caustic Burno » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:34 pm

keysbottles wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:01 pm
My 16 yo grandson is interested in b/p hunting. I have almost no experience. I could use suggestions/warning about type gun, caliber, bullets, powder or anything you think I should know before helping him get involved. Help will greatly appreciated. don
This is a big can too open.
Does he want to hunt with a flintlock? Percussion? Or modern? What state is he in this makes a difference as well.
Got to know this answer before we get off in the weeds.
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but the lack does buy misery.

User avatar
Bigfoot
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 12211
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 161 times

Re: black powder help

Post by Bigfoot » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:07 pm

Zero help to offer, but it’s awesome a young person wants to be involved. Got 2 friends that are conservation officers. They act like the future looks bleak for hunting/fishing.
Your not a small business owner. Your a stay at home mom trapped in a pyramid scheme.

keysbottles
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:27 pm
Location: NE Arkansas

Re: black powder help

Post by keysbottles » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:01 pm

Below is the rifle we are looking at. Being budget conscious we are stating with the minimum investment. After looking into black powder I realized the cost of the gun is just the start. Thanks for the responses.

https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/thomps ... tid=451160
The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. -- Ronald Reagan

keysbottles
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:27 pm
Location: NE Arkansas

Re: black powder help

Post by keysbottles » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:02 pm

We live in Arkansas.
The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. -- Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 24442
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 671 times

Re: black powder help

Post by Caustic Burno » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:28 pm

keysbottles wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:02 pm
We live in Arkansas.
Okay what type smoke pole does he want to hunt with?
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but the lack does buy misery.

User avatar
jltrent
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3162
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:04 pm
Location: Virginia
Has thanked: 242 times
Been thanked: 238 times

Re: black powder help

Post by jltrent » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:08 am

On the powder and bullets/slugs I like Triple 7 powder and Sabets for slugs/bullets...The Triple 7 powder is not as dirty and will clean up fairly easy which is very important as the burnt powder will eat the barrel up fast...On the gun you have picked out it will probably be light weight which will cause some pretty good recoil. Usually when prices goes up the weight and quality of the gun go up.

He needs to be very careful about the amount of powder loaded as two much can cause extra pressure and be very dangerous. That is my 2 cents...

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 24442
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 671 times

Re: black powder help

Post by Caustic Burno » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:40 am

jltrent wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:08 am
On the powder and bullets/slugs I like Triple 7 powder and Sabets for slugs/bullets...The Triple 7 powder is not as dirty and will clean up fairly easy which is very important as the burnt powder will eat the barrel up fast...On the gun you have picked out it will probably be light weight which will cause some pretty good recoil. Usually when prices goes up the weight and quality of the gun go up.

He needs to be very careful about the amount of powder loaded as two much can cause extra pressure and be very dangerous. That is my 2 cents...

Modern muzzle loader I only use Blackhorn 209. Traiditioal percussions Alliance black MZ. Flintlocks just work best with Black using 4f for the frizzen pan. Projectiles to used are wildly varied depending on rate of twist on your barrel . Many of the traditional have a 1/66 twist and work better with a patched round ball. A lot of the modern have a 1/28 twist and only shoot sabots well, not all sabots are created equal in finding what your rifle likes.
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but the lack does buy misery.

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 24442
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 671 times

Re: black powder help

Post by Caustic Burno » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:56 am

As far as powder goes you can get off in the weeds real quick here. The black powder substitutes are volume based not weight. Remember your making a pipe bomb with a muzzle loader. Not overloading is critical along with bullet set properly on the powder. Just because it says it will shoot a 150 grain powder load doesn’t mean it’s safe. You can easily exceed pressures by using the wrong bullet weight. This is a system and your constructing the bullet in the barrel.
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but the lack does buy misery.

Redgully
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:24 am
Location: Karragullen, Western Australia
Has thanked: 390 times
Been thanked: 254 times

Re: black powder help

Post by Redgully » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:58 am

All right i admit right now Australia's gun laws make me sad.

chaded
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:06 am
Location: Southeast Ohio
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: black powder help

Post by chaded » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:20 am

The gun you posted a link to is a good budget gun, I had one. If it was me and that was the gun I was interested in I would get a jug of Blackhorn209, Hornady XTP bullets (250 grain), Win209 primers, Harvester sabots (crushed rib and smooth, find which one shoots better) and work up from 90 grains by volume with the powder. If it is like the Impact I had the sweet spot will be 100-110 grains. (120 max). This will knock deer flat.

Muzzleloading is fun and can be addictive but requires a little experimentation to find the right load. I would recommend making a witness mark on the ramrod with a single load in it just in case you ever double load you can use the mark for reference.

keysbottles
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:27 pm
Location: NE Arkansas

Re: black powder help

Post by keysbottles » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:08 pm

He picked out his rifle today. A investarm 50 hawken 25060 We found it at a local pawn shop. I am impressed with the finish and fit of the gun, a good looking firearm, brass hardware. He likes the mountain man look. :D

Next question,, is there a chart somewhere that has powder and bullet sizes, recommended for this gun? Thanks Don
The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. -- Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 24442
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 671 times

Re: black powder help

Post by Caustic Burno » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:46 pm

keysbottles wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:08 pm
He picked out his rifle today. A investarm 50 hawken 25060 We found it at a local pawn shop. I am impressed with the finish and fit of the gun, a good looking firearm, brass hardware. He likes the mountain man look. :D

Next question,, is there a chart somewhere that has powder and bullet sizes, recommended for this gun? Thanks Don
With that rifle his best performance will most likely be with 2f black powder in 80 grain loads. Usually accuracy starts going south over a 100 grains.
It will most likely perform best with a patched .490 round ball.
Does the rifle say Lyman on it?
https://www.outdoorlife.com/essential-i ... der-hunts/
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but the lack does buy misery.

User avatar
snoopdog
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:16 am
Location: ne oklahoma
Has thanked: 504 times
Been thanked: 214 times

Re: black powder help

Post by snoopdog » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:05 pm

Barrel twist is the key on that gun, I imagine its a 1/48, which will shoot a patched roundball reasonably well, or a Lee "real" bullet reasonably well. Personally, I use 3f in everything, I think 2f is reccomended for over 50 cal, but will certainly work. I'd start at 60 grains and work up, do some reading, all substitutes are not equal.
Being poor is the most expensive thing there is

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 24442
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 671 times

Re: black powder help

Post by Caustic Burno » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:22 pm

snoopdog wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:05 pm
Barrel twist is the key on that gun, I imagine its a 1/48, which will shoot a patched roundball reasonably well, or a Lee "real" bullet reasonably well. Personally, I use 3f in everything, I think 2f is reccomended for over 50 cal, but will certainly work. I'd start at 60 grains and work up, do some reading, all substitutes are not equal.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Never had a side lock that the accuracy didn’t start suffering over 100 grains.
I shoot 75 grains 2f in mine.
Note to above,Black powder is only reliable powder I have found for side locks. It has the lowest ignition temp of all the powders. I would convert it to musket caps, there hotter and easier to handle IMO.
Money doesn’t buy happiness, but the lack does buy misery.

Post Reply