Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby TexasBred » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:40 pm

Brute 23 wrote:Debt has taken over our college students, our banks, and our government.... it's a house of cards.

Nothing will change until you and I start looking at each other and saying out loud debt is not ok.

Are you capable of coughing up millions out of petty cash when you need it in the business?? If so then you're miles ahead of 99.9% of other businesses. Been a long time since I've examined a financial statement with zero liabilities (other than my own) and I'm not in any business either.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby Brute 23 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:54 pm

I have said already I'm not against all debt. I'm against cc debt, pay day loans, general consumer debt, and the loose lending practices many of the banks have adopted.

There are plenty of businesses that operate debt free and more could do it if they had to.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby ALACOWMAN » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:37 pm

[quote="backhoeboogie"]If I buy a car, its not because the bank is making me do it. If I buy a hamburger, its not because the banks say I have to.

Brute I don't understand your hatred for banks. They've loaned me money to buy caterpillars, backhoes, a farm etc. All of which made money for me.

Its kind of hard to buy something online, from places like Florida, and fly down there to pay cash. A credit or debit card makes life simple. But the bank doesn't tell me I gotta buy things.

Plenty of nickels in the checking account. I buy $150 item online, use a credit card, no big deal. When the bill comes I pay it. Pretty simple.

Checked my balance the first of the week...told me there was several nickels left in it,,hand full of dimes..and a maybe couple quarters
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:54 pm

I can't imagine life without a credit or debit card. It's bad enough having the diesel pump stop at $75, but it would really stink to have to wait in line to pay before you pump. I deal I cash if at all possible. The kids today aren't capable of counting money, dang shame.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby ddd75 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:01 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:I can't imagine life without a credit or debit card. It's bad enough having the diesel pump stop at $75, but it would really stink to have to wait in line to pay before you pump. I deal I cash if at all possible. The kids today aren't capable of counting money, dang shame.


thats exactly why i hate paying in cash.. no one knows how to count. They'll just sit and look at the cash drawer for about 10 seconds like.. WTF?
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby TexasBred » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:11 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:I can't imagine life without a credit or debit card. It's bad enough having the diesel pump stop at $75, but it would really stink to have to wait in line to pay before you pump. I deal I cash if at all possible. The kids today aren't capable of counting money, dang shame.

Grit you and me could have really impressed folks if they'd let us take a calculator to arithmetic class years ago. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby Craig Miller » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:10 pm

And if they hit the wrong number when they type it in your gonna be there a while as they try to figure it out
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby Hunter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:46 am

TexasBred wrote:
Hunter wrote:
TexasBred wrote:There is one small line item on any statement of condition called "provision for loss". Every bank recognizes the risk on any loan whether it's a home loan, car loan or unpaid credit card balance. Oh and the credit card company is nothing but an extension of hte bank issuing it. That APR and late charge fee takes care of that. You probably never got an NSF fee either. Do you realize that most banks try to cover the entire payroll with NSF fees collected?? Is that dishonest or taking advantage of folks??


How you saying JPMC, Citi, Wells Fargo or maybe even Frost Bank try to cover all of their employees pay with NSF fees collected?

Have you ever really given it a thought?? Stop and think about the hundreds of thousands of NSF items per day in one of these huge banks...some paid....some rejected but every item gets charged a fee. As easy for them to do it as it is the little bank on the corner with $10 million in assets.


All I am saying is that it is your claim is far fetched.
Wells Fargo has 262,700 employees
Citi has 209,000
Frost Bank 4,217

Lets be conservative and say the average employee makes 30K a year.
That would mean Wells Fargo would need to make $7.881 Billion a year in NSF fees.
Frost would need to make $126.5 million.

Frost made 1.3 billion in revenue in '16 and projected to make 1.4B in '17
Wells made 89.7 billion in '17.

If banks made enough in NSF fees to cover their payroll their ROI would be amazing.
I do think banks make a good amount of money off of credit cards but not that much.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby callmefence » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:59 am

I use credit cards every opportunity i have. I carry very little cash and no debit card. I do carry a couple of paper checks.
Different cards have different assignments. Materials, tools, parts , fuel, personal, farm etc. A annual statement sure makes taxes easy to figure.
A good credit card will make you 1-3 percent on every purchase. It's not unusual for us to make 300.00 a month on cc points. On the twelfth. Day of every month everything gets paid to zero balance. So no interest is ever paid.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby Hunter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:28 am

Brute 23 wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Brute 23 wrote:
People don't realize that when they take out debt, the treasury prints money to keep interest rates down, which devalues our dollar, which makes products seem more expensive, which makes debt increase, on and on and on.



Brute, do you mind explaining why the treasury prints money if an individual takes on debt?
Maybe, I am just not following what you mean.
I do agree that when the treasury prints money it could devalue your dollar.


Better wording than I can type.

Explanation of federal funds rate decisions. When the Federal Open Market Committee wishes to reduce interest rates they will increase the supply of money by buying government securities. ... Reducing the Fed Funds Rate makes money cheaper, allowing an influx of credit into the economy through all types of loans.

Its a viscous cycle. People say that the cost of living has gone up but the pay hasn't. That is because our dollar is devalued. Our dollar is devalued because the fed has to keep interest rates low because Americans worship debt.

My problem with the mega banks is they have changed the way they do things now because they know the government will bail them out. They are making loans on vehicles, houses, etc that should not be made.

We just got out of the housing crises because they got laxed on the lending and what do they do... over extend themselves in O&G.

Our country is going down the tubes financially because people can not get their spending under control. The idea that its their money to do with what they want does not fly any more because we are having to prop them back up after their bad decisions.


The US Average Hourly Earnings has actually been increasing since about May/June of 2010.
But, goods have also increased.
If I had the time I would look to see if one has increased more than the other.

The govt should have never bailed the banks/financial institutions.

I hate debt and wish nobody had it but we don't live in Utopia.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby Brute 23 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:56 am

Hunter wrote:
Brute 23 wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Brute, do you mind explaining why the treasury prints money if an individual takes on debt?
Maybe, I am just not following what you mean.
I do agree that when the treasury prints money it could devalue your dollar.


Better wording than I can type.

Explanation of federal funds rate decisions. When the Federal Open Market Committee wishes to reduce interest rates they will increase the supply of money by buying government securities. ... Reducing the Fed Funds Rate makes money cheaper, allowing an influx of credit into the economy through all types of loans.

Its a viscous cycle. People say that the cost of living has gone up but the pay hasn't. That is because our dollar is devalued. Our dollar is devalued because the fed has to keep interest rates low because Americans worship debt.

My problem with the mega banks is they have changed the way they do things now because they know the government will bail them out. They are making loans on vehicles, houses, etc that should not be made.

We just got out of the housing crises because they got laxed on the lending and what do they do... over extend themselves in O&G.

Our country is going down the tubes financially because people can not get their spending under control. The idea that its their money to do with what they want does not fly any more because we are having to prop them back up after their bad decisions.


The US Average Hourly Earnings has actually been increasing since about May/June of 2010.
But, goods have also increased.
If I had the time I would look to see if one has increased more than the other.

The govt should have never bailed the banks/financial institutions.

I hate debt and wish nobody had it but we don't live in Utopia.


Four major spending categories have increased faster than income growth since 2007: medical expenses (34%), “other” expenses (30%), food and beverages (22%) and housing (20%), according to NerdWallet’s analysis.

Here is a good website that really breaks down what is going with credit cards and all the stats. The fact is people are spending money on things that they do not need and that they can not afford.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/average ... household/

My problem with debt is it has been romanticized. Its been touted as a way to get what you deserve. Its marketed as a smart way to do business... "use some one else's money not yours". Debt is way too easy to come by. As some one said already that products are being sold based off how much some one will lend you to buy the product... not the product's actual value.

I have said many times that I don't have a problem with certain debt. If you hand out cc to your guys to buy fuel great. As long as the cards are a tiny portion of your assets I get that it is more convenient. If you want to get a mortgage to buy a house that is a healthy portion of your income and you have your finances in line... go for it.

I'm not unrealistic... but I'm not going to act like debt is this great thing that will lead our country... or our citizens... to prosperity.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby Hunter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:13 am

Thanks.
Basically, people need to stop living above their needs.

But, at the same time I am all for companies making money as they are a for profit organization.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby Hunter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:21 am

Brute 23 wrote:
Four major spending categories have increased faster than income growth since 2007: medical expenses (34%), “other” expenses (30%), food and beverages (22%) and housing (20%), according to NerdWallet’s analysis.



I would like to see those percentages or comparisons if we only go back to 2010.

My graph is only going back to 2008. U.S. Average Hourly Earnings All Employees was the highest in early 2009 and then plummeted. Going to assume that was the banking crisis.

It is easy to pick and choose time frames to make things sound better or worse depending on your viewpoint.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby Brute 23 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:34 am

Hunter wrote:
Brute 23 wrote:
Four major spending categories have increased faster than income growth since 2007: medical expenses (34%), “other” expenses (30%), food and beverages (22%) and housing (20%), according to NerdWallet’s analysis.



I would like to see those percentages or comparisons if we only go back to 2010.

My graph is only going back to 2008. U.S. Average Hourly Earnings All Employees was the highest in early 2009 and then plummeted. Going to assume that was the banking crisis.

It is easy to pick and choose time frames to make things sound better or worse depending on your viewpoint.


Did you look at the link? I don't think they are really pushing any thing one way or another. They are just showing the trends for the last 10 ten years.

For me, I don't care if the costs of products went up or down or if incomes went up or down. You cant spend more than you make regardless.
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Re: Americans now $1 Trillion in credit card debt.........

Postby Hunter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:45 am

Sorry, I was not trying to imply that it was or was not leaning one way or another. I was just curious on how those numbers would look if it went back to 2010.

What I did find interesting in the article was this:

Since NerdWallet’s number focuses on credit card debt only, the $905 billion is a more accurate estimate of how much debt is outstanding. It’s also important to note that this total includes the balances of cardholders who pay off their cards in full every month, as well as those who carry debt from one month to the next.

I think more and more people are using CC b/c of points and the simple ease of it...i.e. gas pumps.

If one pays off their CC every month and ALSO puts money into savings and/or investments while paying all other debts they shouldn't have any issues.
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