NRA is against State's rights?

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Bright Raven
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:57 am

sstterry wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
sstterry wrote:
This is the Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Most people believe it is about the individual, but it is about the States being allowed to maintain a Militia. IE the Revolutionary War when England wanted to ban the colonies from having Militias. The personal ownership and regulation of firearms were never contemplated at the time.


You may be correct. HOWEVER, the Supreme Court has ruled that it pertains to "Individual" rights to private ownership of firearms. Here is the information on the 5 to 4 2008 ruling. You can take consolation in the fact that 4 Justices agreed with you!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distric ... _v._Heller


I am well aware of Heller. I didn't say it wasn't the law now, I just said it wasn't contemplated at the time. But nothing in Heller says that there can't be reasonable restrictions and regulations placed on firearms. For instance, why does anyone need a magazine that holds more than 5 rounds? If I haven't hit the deer on the first shot, I probably won't at all.


I actually agree with you. I have always doubted that the 2nd Amendment was about individuals. Nevertheless, the Heller decision stands.

I also agree on clip capacity but I would go for 8. After all, most revolvers have 6 cylinders.
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby HDRider » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:03 am

sstterry wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
sstterry wrote:
This is the Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Most people believe it is about the individual, but it is about the States being allowed to maintain a Militia. IE the Revolutionary War when England wanted to ban the colonies from having Militias. The personal ownership and regulation of firearms were never contemplated at the time.


You may be correct. HOWEVER, the Supreme Court has ruled that it pertains to "Individual" rights to private ownership of firearms. Here is the information on the 5 to 4 2008 ruling. You can take consolation in the fact that 4 Justices agreed with you!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distric ... _v._Heller


I am well aware of Heller. I didn't say it wasn't the law now, I just said it wasn't contemplated at the time. But nothing in Heller says that there can't be reasonable restrictions and regulations placed on firearms. For instance, why does anyone need a magazine that holds more than 5 rounds? If I haven't hit the deer on the first shot, I probably won't at all.

You think the 2nd is about hunting?

I like this part too...
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby dieselbeef » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:06 am

at least post the whole amendment if yer gonna post it huh.....
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:55 am

sstterry wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
sstterry wrote:
This is the Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Most people believe it is about the individual, but it is about the States being allowed to maintain a Militia. IE the Revolutionary War when England wanted to ban the colonies from having Militias. The personal ownership and regulation of firearms were never contemplated at the time.


You may be correct. HOWEVER, the Supreme Court has ruled that it pertains to "Individual" rights to private ownership of firearms. Here is the information on the 5 to 4 2008 ruling. You can take consolation in the fact that 4 Justices agreed with you!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distric ... _v._Heller


I am well aware of Heller. I didn't say it wasn't the law now, I just said it wasn't contemplated at the time. But nothing in Heller says that there can't be reasonable restrictions and regulations placed on firearms. For instance, why does anyone need a magazine that holds more than 5 rounds? If I haven't hit the deer on the first shot, I probably won't at all.


I assume you've never hunted off a buggy or airboat. Why not just make us all like Barney?
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby dieselbeef » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:33 am

10 rd mags mean I gotta carry more of em..or more guns at once..not gonna fix schidt
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:17 am

True Grit Farms wrote:

I assume you've never hunted off a buggy or airboat.


How does that work? You chase them I assume. Firing at them until one goes down?

Resident hunters in Wyoming refer to those hunters that fire at running pronghorn antelope as "flock shooters". Not very well respected out there.
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby TennesseeTuxedo » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:52 am

Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:

I assume you've never hunted off a buggy or airboat.


How does that work? You chase them I assume. Firing at them until one goes down?

Resident hunters in Wyoming refer to those hunters that fire at running pronghorn antelope as "flock shooters". Not very well respected out there.


Or anywhere.
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby sstterry » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:37 am

This part of the syllabus from Heller:
2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.

Under Heller you could theroetically ban anything except flint locks and black powder weapons. My only point is that the 2nd Amendment is not without limitation and there is nothing wrong with "reasonable restrictions" for the public safety. All the talk about banning "Assault Rifles" is a fallacy. They are no different than a semi-automatic .22 with just some fancy coverings. However, high capacity magazines and bump-stocks are another matter altogether. Machine Guns are banned, hand grenades are banned. Some restrictions are already in place. It is simply a matter of degree and it is not a black and white issue.
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:54 am

Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:

I assume you've never hunted off a buggy or airboat.


How does that work? You chase them I assume. Firing at them until one goes down?

Resident hunters in Wyoming refer to those hunters that fire at running pronghorn antelope as "flock shooters". Not very well respected out there.

They called us herd shooters in Montana.
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:00 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:

I assume you've never hunted off a buggy or airboat.


How does that work? You chase them I assume. Firing at them until one goes down?

Resident hunters in Wyoming refer to those hunters that fire at running pronghorn antelope as "flock shooters". Not very well respected out there.

They called us herd shooters in Montana.


I have been engaged in hunting for a long time and have hunted in many states, Canada, and Africa. Not much I have not seen. I have seen deer running around dragging their guts, I have seen pronghorn with their legs shot off and saw an elk with its lower jaw shot off. It happens. IMO anyone who shoots at moving game from a moving vehicle except under extraordinary circumstances should get one behind the ear.
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:53 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
How does that work? You chase them I assume. Firing at them until one goes down?

Resident hunters in Wyoming refer to those hunters that fire at running pronghorn antelope as "flock shooters". Not very well respected out there.

They called us herd shooters in Montana.


I have been engaged in hunting for a long time and have hunted in many states, Canada, and Africa. Not much I have not seen. I have seen deer running around dragging their guts, I have seen pronghorn with their legs shot off and saw an elk with its lower jaw shot off. It happens. IMO anyone who shoots at moving game from a moving vehicle except under extraordinary circumstances should get one behind the ear.


I can't say as I disagree, I'm not much for wounding game, but I hunt for the sport and the fun of it. I still hunt a lot still but I don't kill much anymore. I'm to old and soft to buggy or airboat hunt anymore, but nothing beats the thrill of the kill.
Different strokes for different folks.
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby Davemk » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:30 pm

Go read the Federalist Papers. The 2a was written for individuals. King George III is the reason for the 2a. It has nothing to do with hunting or state controlled militias.
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby Caustic Burno » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:54 am

Davemk wrote:Go read the Federalist Papers. The 2a was written for individuals. King George III is the reason for the 2a. It has nothing to do with hunting or state controlled militias.


I believe it was HD that so eloquently put it they were going to throw something at the wall due to all the trauma and drama of the issue.

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

The media is pushing safety to the max.
That is not the agenda as we all know.
Even in this rural community I live in they have ran a successful campaign.
Walk down the road with a lever action people will just wave, an “assault rifle”
deputies will be pulling up.
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby dieselbeef » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:07 am

Image
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Re: NRA is against State's rights?

Postby Bright Raven » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:24 am

Davemk wrote:Go read the Federalist Papers. The 2a was written for individuals. King George III is the reason for the 2a. It has nothing to do with hunting or state controlled militias.


Dave. I only said I have had my doubts about what the crafters of the 2A meant. For the record, I accept that it pertains to individuals and if I were a Justice, I would have voted on the side of individual rights.
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