Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

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Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby jltrent » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:03 am

Wood post before 2004 contained arsenic and test have shown a soil contamination of at least 8' around them. According to the EPA experts this can cause health hazards. Can the dirt just be dug up and taken to a landfill? Also could this be causing health problems for my cattle?

https://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health/ehhm/cca.html
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby Dave » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:25 am

Well there is arsenic in the soil. Actually it is there naturally too. All those years I did soil tests for people the city people would want soil test for arsenic. When I would tell them that they indeed had arsenic in their soil it would shock them. It is not a matter of is it present. It is at what level does it need to reach to be harmful.
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:48 am

I would not worry about the amount of arsenic that would leach out of a fence post. No. It is extremely unlikely it would hurt a cow based on the percentage of their total diet that would come from around the fence posts.

Arsenic is naturally occurring and the levels depend on the geological history of the area. The rocky Mountain region tends to have high arsenic levels.

As the Remedial Project Manager on the Butte Montana Priority Soils Superfund Project, Arsenic was one of the major contaminants of concern along with lead. On that site, the arsenic was the result of hard rock mining.

To set action levels for arsenic and other soil contaminants, site-specific risk assessments have to be conducted to determine the clean up levels. 90 % of the named responsible parties have enough money and resources that the EPA cannot pull cleanup levels out of the clear blue sky. They have to be demonstrated through risk assessments. Many times like in Butte, we fed contaminated soils to hogs to determine bioavailability and effects.

There are generally no specific legal levels set in statute. It all has to be proven in scientific study and evaluated by toxicologists.
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby greybeard » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:30 am

old lace can be more deadly than arsenic.......
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby Stocker Steve » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Bright Raven wrote:Many times like in Butte, we fed contaminated soils to hogs to determine bioavailability and effects. There are generally no specific legal levels set in statute. It all has to be proven in scientific study and evaluated by toxicologists.


How do you know when a hog is toxic?
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby Rafter S » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:56 pm

jltrent wrote:Wood post before 2004 contained arsenic and test have shown a soil contamination of at least 8' around them. According to the EPA experts this can cause health hazards. Can the dirt just be dug up and taken to a landfill? Also could this be causing health problems for my cattle?

https://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health/ehhm/cca.html


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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:02 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Many times like in Butte, we fed contaminated soils to hogs to determine bioavailability and effects. There are generally no specific legal levels set in statute. It all has to be proven in scientific study and evaluated by toxicologists.


How do you know when a hog is toxic?


The study of bioavailability of metals in hogs as a proxy for using humans was developed in Great Britain. They feed the hog known quantities of the species of contaminants from a specific site. It is a long explanation so briefly, they deduce how much is absorbed into the hog and how much is excreted. That provides data on whether the contaminant is bioavailable. Some forms of lead in silica for instant pass right through. Zero bioavailability. Thus, you cannot enforce a cleanup if there is ZERO risk. Hogs are much like humans in function. Thus, they act as a proxy. If they show high levels of lead in tissue then a model (IBUK) is used to determine "toxicity ". I am summarizing what is contained in volumes.
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby ALACOWMAN » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:13 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Many times like in Butte, we fed contaminated soils to hogs to determine bioavailability and effects. There are generally no specific legal levels set in statute. It all has to be proven in scientific study and evaluated by toxicologists.


How do you know when a hog is toxic?

This is a good indicator ..https://www.google.com/search?q=dead+pi ... KXPnQomsSM:
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby wbvs58 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:11 pm

It's good for you. The old geriatric tonics used to have arsenic and strychnine in them to give the oldies a bit of pep. Now they just have viagra.

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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby MtnCows93 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:16 pm

i know a guy that burned a old pile of treated wood out in his pasture and the cows ate the ashes and killed 8 of his cows
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:20 pm

MtnCows93 wrote:i know a guy that burned a old pile of treated wood out in his pasture and the cows ate the ashes and killed 8 of his cows


That is a pathway of a totally different nature. In that case the arsenic and other preservatives would be concentrated in the ash. In which case, there is a clear pathway for the cows to get a lethal dose.
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby JMJ Farms » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:39 pm

MtnCows93 wrote:i know a guy that burned a old pile of treated wood out in his pasture and the cows ate the ashes and killed 8 of his cows


Heard of this some years back. Good thing somebody told me too bc I wouldn’t have ever given it a second thought. What compels them to eat the ashes?
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby Bright Raven » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:40 pm

JMJ Farms wrote:
MtnCows93 wrote:i know a guy that burned a old pile of treated wood out in his pasture and the cows ate the ashes and killed 8 of his cows


Heard of this some years back. Good thing somebody told me too bc I wouldn’t have ever given it a second thought. What compels them to eat the ashes?


Minerals. They are attracted by the salts and minerals in ash.
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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby sim.-ang.king » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:40 pm

greybeard wrote:old lace can be more deadly than arsenic.......


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Re: Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood

Postby msplmtneer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:42 am

When I worked at a wood treating plant ne of my jabs was to check the solution for the % of chrome,copper and arsenic also in the wood. I also sampled water out of a water cooler on city water, the iced tea I took to work and Mountain Dew soda I can't remember the numbers but everything I sampled had arsenic in it the Mountain Dew had the most. Some time in the late 1990s or early 2000 Congress outlawed arsenic in the treatment of wood for the general public. As far as I know it was nation wide, we changed to a different chemical that we had to add separate from separate tank it was about twice as costly and we used a tanker load about every other day. The CCA solution we used before we used about two loads a week. The new chemical was commonly called Quat was more corrosive than the CCA and more harmful to critters and humans, I touched some pipe that had some Quat spilled on it and was hosed off and had dried and was burned on both of my forearms it is nasty stuff it eats metal but is legal. So yes Arsenic is nasty also but it is natural and you can find it every where but not in lethal amounts but there is a warning sheet you should have been given where you bought the wood that tells you not to burn scrap treated wood to dispose of it in a landfill or incinerator. :tiphat:
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