B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

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B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby hornedfrogbbq » Fri May 18, 2018 4:47 pm

Does anyone know the history of these two bulls and their "cow making" abilities? I know they both had good long runs and while not history makers with their EPD's, I'm less concerned (but some concerned) about those numbers. I'd much rather hear from folks with experience with them.

thanks for any feedback!
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby bse » Fri May 18, 2018 5:10 pm

There both carriers, so no use to me, I think O36 was better than Predestined
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby Ky hills » Fri May 18, 2018 6:12 pm

I, think that there will likely be some differing views about the cow making ability of those bulls. In my limited number of cows by them or with them in the pedigree, I liked them. They milked good and raised good calves. One of the other reasons that I liked them some others may not, was that they tended to have some frame. New Design is a bull that I like to see in a pedigree, and in my opinion Predestined is one of his best sons. One of my current bulls is a grandson of Predestined, by Power Tool.
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby Ebenezer » Fri May 18, 2018 7:02 pm

036 mixed with other lines can be OK if you test for defects prior to buying. I would not go more than one time of 036 in the pedigree. He can fix a look in cows that some do not care for. Especially the head; sort of nail keg type. Predestined is not a heart throb for me. I thought so early on. But now, no.
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby Air gator » Fri May 18, 2018 8:17 pm

Here is an article on the passing of Gar Predestined.

https://www.drovers.com/article/legenda ... asses-away
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby gizmom » Sun May 20, 2018 1:31 pm

We had some 036, no females left in the herd, angular hard doing in our environment. Never used predestined the reason at the time was his scrotal measurement. Saved us a lot of headaches when he was found to be a carrier. That bull cost a lot of good people a whole lot of money. I see they didn’t mention his carrier status in the article.

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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby W.B. » Mon May 21, 2018 6:51 am

Cow maker is not what comes to my mind with those two bulls. Too many problems with feet and udders.
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby Cdcollett » Mon May 28, 2018 10:22 am

Predestined was a solid foot improver. Not so on udders. That really followed the cow without improving or getting worse. I found them to be high capacity cows. For me the bulls were either really good or way too plain so they made good steers. Not consistent enough on the bull side. I still have several cows but the DD issue has made them commercial unless I have something worth testing there.
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby jdg » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:21 am

To me a cow maker is a bull that will consistently produce fertility, soundness, and longevity in your environment. There are a lot of bulls out there that have been used that will produce WW, YW and $B, with impressive EPD's across the board....there are much fewer that will consistently produce daughters that will stand the test of time. I've heard it said before that often your most profitable cow is one you don't notice until she is a teenager. She never raised your biggest calf, but she raised a good calf every year, on time, and you never had to intercede, treat, or help her in any way. We are hardwired as breeders to breed for the best, most pleasing phenotype, curve bender of a calf, but what really pays the mortgage are fertile, trouble free cattle with longevity. More breeders breed for the former than the latter. Some people call them multipliers and not breeders. Choose a sire from a program that treats their cows at least as hard as you do, as close to your environment as possible, and you're more likely to find a cow maker bull. Burke Teichert has said that most people will make more money using a terminal sire and buying replacement females from someone who is breeding for the aforementioned attributes, unless you have the scale to run a separate replacement herd, with a true maternal bull. Its a belief i adhere to.
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby Ebenezer » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:29 am

You are dead on. If you want to locate the iceberg by seeing the tip, look at Pathfinder reports. Seldom does a bull with much proof ever get 10% (most a lot less) of his daughters in that grouping. We can blame it on a lot of things: lack of reporting, using the wrong bulls on them, ... excuse list goes on. The real take-home message: a large majority of "Great One's" daughters could not breed in a short season, rebred on time and raise a decent calf. Pathfinder is a report on your "top cows" and also an indictment on the other part of your cow herd that cannot raise a decent calf. You've got to have calves less than 100% herd ratio on weaning every year to get great cows to wean more than 100% in the same year. And it is easily manipulated by breeding the chosen cows to higher growth bulls each year. If I had a magic wand, every cow would wean 100% and every calf would look alike. A true omen that I have arrived!
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby Jake » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:37 pm

Ebenezer wrote:You are dead on. If you want to locate the iceberg by seeing the tip, look at Pathfinder reports. Seldom does a bull with much proof ever get 10% (most a lot less) of his daughters in that grouping. We can blame it on a lot of things: lack of reporting, using the wrong bulls on them, ... excuse list goes on. The real take-home message: a large majority of "Great One's" daughters could not breed in a short season, rebred on time and raise a decent calf. Pathfinder is a report on your "top cows" and also an indictment on the other part of your cow herd that cannot raise a decent calf. You've got to have calves less than 100% herd ratio on weaning every year to get great cows to wean more than 100% in the same year. And it is easily manipulated by breeding the chosen cows to higher growth bulls each year. If I had a magic wand, every cow would wean 100% and every calf would look alike. A true omen that I have arrived!


Man if I could make them all the same and all calf in 45 days I'd be living the high life.
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Re: B/R New Design and his son GAR Predestined = cow makers?

Postby Prairiegrass » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:08 pm

Keeping predestined daughters took my herd backwards. Poor udders and not great feet. Udders much worse than feet. Did raise heavy calves but steers were short, high weight high capacity.
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