Deer Valley Testament?

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boondocks
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Deer Valley Testament?

Postby boondocks » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:49 pm

https://selectsiresbeef.com/index.php/b ... ge?bid=410

Thoughts? I like some of him but the $EN is pretty low. (Seemingly lower than I would expect?)
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby Chocolate Cow2 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:21 am

Opinion? If you're breeding for the feedlot, he's perfect. If you are wanting replacement females, I wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole. A +44 milk EPD, a -$43.25 EN value offers nothing towards a long lasting, easy keeping, fertile female. All I see is a pedigree with some of the most extreme sires in the breed. That's my opinion and it's only worth what my experience has cost me chasing extremes.
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby jscunn » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:18 am

Some programs have the environment to handle +44 milk. Just my opinion.
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby Bestoutwest » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:23 am

I'd pass on him. He looks good, but I think that $EN would be hard to overcome.
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby Ebenezer » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:32 am

Would make a good third world dairy bull with that milk EPD.
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby jscunn » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:13 pm

Both Sydgen CC&7 and JMB Traction were over +50 Milk EPD when there first daughters weaned calves, neither bull had huge amounts of daughters fall out. Actually CC&7 had a really high pathfinder qualification rate in his first few years of pathfinder status. Both bulls are now under +37 for milk EPD right now. The point I am trying to make is the MIlk EPD isnt very accurate on the top end for sure. While the Milk EPD is not very accurate is way more accurate than $EN.
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby elkwc » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:22 pm

jscunn wrote:Both Sydgen CC&7 and JMB Traction were over +50 Milk EPD when there first daughters weaned calves, neither bull had huge amounts of daughters fall out. Actually CC&7 had a really high pathfinder qualification rate in his first few years of pathfinder status. Both bulls are now under +37 for milk EPD right now. The point I am trying to make is the MIlk EPD isnt very accurate on the top end for sure. While the Milk EPD is not very accurate is way more accurate than $EN.


I agree and it isn't on the bottom either IMO. I've seen heifers/cows with a milk EPD in the low 20's that gave enough. I had one in that area that stunted a calf also. Beautiful udder but little milk flow. She did better on the second calf but still not enough. I had one that was 19 that gave plenty. So this is just another reason I put very little weight in EPD's.
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby Ebenezer » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:40 am

jscunn wrote:Both Sydgen CC&7 and JMB Traction were over +50 Milk EPD when there first daughters weaned calves, neither bull had huge amounts of daughters fall out. Actually CC&7 had a really high pathfinder qualification rate in his first few years of pathfinder status. Both bulls are now under +37 for milk EPD right now. The point I am trying to make is the MIlk EPD isnt very accurate on the top end for sure. While the Milk EPD is not very accurate is way more accurate than $EN.

Not much good if it is wildly inaccurate - Not playing horseshoes. AAA should step up and find the breeders who turned in data to skew the original poor data and deal with them, if they had correctness as a building block of the organization. Same deal on the early pathfinder status: was all data correct? I doubt it if that % dropped, too. Buyer and EPD reader beware. But looks good in 4 color ads.

If I were to err, I'd prefer a tad low on milk versus a tad high on milk. I can sell a second smaller calf. I cannot sell the missing next calf from a cow that cannot allocate enough energy to cycle. Extremes are extremes. Worked well in side shows of fairs; pay 50 cents and see the freaks. Not so good in the cow world except for shows and selling to others whom you do not really care about.
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby Chocolate Cow2 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:59 am

http://www.beefproducer.com/breeding/yo ... ave-it-all

paragraph 2,3 & 4 of the above article
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:33 am

Chocolate Cow2 wrote:http://www.beefproducer.com/breeding/you-cant-have-it-all

paragraph 2,3 & 4 of the above article


Today's big, energy-dependent cattle were specifically selected to "perform" under optimum conditions, such as in the feedlot, and under continuous stocking with plenty of options for what to eat, plus lots of inputs, including ample hay and feed supplements.

However, once you begin to pressure your stock with more competition, slightly older forage and requirements to eat things they normally do not, in addition to pulling out most or all their feed crutches, they will no longer perform like before.

In addition, you'll no longer be able to choose cattle like your paradigms tell you, nor to select for heavy milkers, nor cows that produced the heaviest calves, nor cows for which you paid a lot of dough. Instead, you'll begin putting enough pressure on your cattle that reproduction -- or the lack of it -- will become you primary sorting tool.

It's worth repeating, I've found this to be true.
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Re: Deer Valley Testament?

Postby Chocolate Cow2 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:59 pm

From Burke Teichert: 8 Frequently asked questioned-answered
http://www.beefmagazine.com/management/ ... s-answered

last paragraph:
Selecting the right seedstock provider? Commercial cattlemen have paid so much money for the wrong kind—high growth, high carcass—for so long that seedstock providers are incentivized to do the wrong thing for commercial maternal herds. There is nothing wrong with growth and carcass; and in terminal herds it is highly desirable. In maternal herds, other traits are more important.

You need to find someone who will help you find bulls to produce functional and efficient females—moderate size and milk, physical soundness, high fertility on low inputs, calving ease, survivability and good longevity. Your seedstock provider also should help you include heterosis for better fertility and survivability in your cows.
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