100% AI?

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Bright Raven
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:25 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:We do some AI but mostly live cover with bulls. A GOOD cow delivers a calf every 12 months or less no excuse. Good cows need no excuses they just do their job and move on to the next one.


100% agree. If I have a cow that does not take during my AI breeding season - she is gone. I will cull for bad fertility before anything else because I will not tolerate having calves out of my calving season.

I was surprised about you on that one but there's no other way to be 100% AI, and to get a 100% bred sometimes. With my AI and heat detection skills I'd end up out of the cow business.


I don't want my cattle to become a burden. I went to a tight fall calving season so I get that chore done ONCE! I will not tolerate calving year round. It's a burden! I will not tolerate breeding year around. I want it done in 8 weeks. If I have a cow that cannot take to AI in a couple cycles, she will be sold. There are exceptions to everything but I don't let my operation manage me. I intend to manage my operation!
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BryanM
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby BryanM » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:45 am

Ok, I am on board with tight calving windows, sounds great. My question is how do you check when they are preg?

Do you just watch for heats? Do you blood test? ultra sound? put patches on them? Just trying to figure out a better way then what I am doing now. Remember I have no bull and am not getting one for my size project.
Its not hard too miss a cycle when you have off the farm jobs. And I do pay close attention to the cows, even had a cow stand for one last year after confirmed preg on both cows. Now it may be possible it was a dominance thing not sure. Another question is do you pay attention to bull calves? these calves are still on cows around 4 to 5 mounths old.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:17 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:We do some AI but mostly live cover with bulls. A GOOD cow delivers a calf every 12 months or less no excuse. Good cows need no excuses they just do their job and move on to the next one.


100% agree. If I have a cow that does not take during my AI breeding season - she is gone. I will cull for bad fertility before anything else because I will not tolerate having calves out of my calving season.

I was surprised about you on that one but there's no other way to be 100% AI, and to get a 100% bred sometimes. With my AI and heat detection skills I'd end up out of the cow business.

LOL - love your honesty!!!
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby hornedfrogbbq » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:43 pm

I think the consensus on time is correct. If you have it, use the best indicators for standing heats. We have too big a herd and not enough time to do that. We AI 100% and put the bulls in to do their thing.

We are experimenting having bulls on them during the timed AI, BEFORE we AI so any early birds can get hit when they are hot. We pull the bulls the night before we AI the next morning. We immediately put the bulls on them after the AI session. We are buying good enough bulls that we'd want to retain heifers out of them and are more concerned about getting the calf on the ground 21 days earlier.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby bse » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:18 pm

bryan, i put a patch on them 17 days after breeding, then breed as needed, blood check 28 days after, then i have put a cidr in when i get the negative at 30 days. gonna recycle at around 42 anyway but with the cidr its on my terms. bbq really cant wrap my head around turning bulls in early, i understand good bulls, but id give the cows lute let the bulls do it, save that money. or just breed what needs breeding early. i do think turning bulls in day after in a commercial setting is a great idea.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Till-Hill » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:12 am

jehosofat wrote:
ez14. wrote:There are thousands of dairy farms that haven't had a breeding bull on the place for decades


I don't doubt that, but they aren't counting on a tight calvung window either. It ain't a game changer if you sell her bull calf for 125.00 this month or next.

Hugely disagree, money lost every day a cow is open. We try to stay at about a 14 month interval on cows and 12.5 for first calf heifers. Cows are milking to hard/long to have them calf at 12 months currently.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby ez14. » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:25 am

Till-Hill wrote:
jehosofat wrote:
ez14. wrote:There are thousands of dairy farms that haven't had a breeding bull on the place for decades


I don't doubt that, but they aren't counting on a tight calvung window either. It ain't a game changer if you sell her bull calf for 125.00 this month or next.

Hugely disagree, money lost every day a cow is open. We try to stay at about a 14 month interval on cows and 12.5 for first calf heifers. Cows are milking to hard/long to have them calf at 12 months currently.
so how long do you have cows on their dry period?
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Till-Hill » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:03 am

ez14. wrote:
Till-Hill wrote:
jehosofat wrote:
I don't doubt that, but they aren't counting on a tight calvung window either. It ain't a game changer if you sell her bull calf for 125.00 this month or next.

Hugely disagree, money lost every day a cow is open. We try to stay at about a 14 month interval on cows and 12.5 for first calf heifers. Cows are milking to hard/long to have them calf at 12 months currently.
so how long do you have cows on their dry period?
60 days is target. Average is 57 right now, bunch of twins rolled thru. Dry them up a week early but they calve sometimes earlier.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby ez14. » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:20 am

Till-Hill wrote:
ez14. wrote:
Till-Hill wrote:Hugely disagree, money lost every day a cow is open. We try to stay at about a 14 month interval on cows and 12.5 for first calf heifers. Cows are milking to hard/long to have them calf at 12 months currently.
so how long do you have cows on their dry period?
60 days is target. Average is 57 right now, bunch of twins rolled thru. Dry them up a week early but they calve sometimes earlier.
ok I thought since you have them on a 14 month calving interval maybe you were giving them a longer dry period. Do you find they still produce well in the couple of extra months?
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Till-Hill » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:43 am

ez14. wrote:
Till-Hill wrote:
ez14. wrote:so how long do you have cows on their dry period?
60 days is target. Average is 57 right now, bunch of twins rolled thru. Dry them up a week early but they calve sometimes earlier.
ok I thought since you have them on a 14 month calving interval maybe you were giving them a longer dry period. Do you find they still produce well in the couple of extra months?

Most will, some won't. Today I have 4 cows to dry up. Last lactations started 6/1/17, 4/14/17, 8/25/17, 8/26/17.They are all due 8/16/18 First two were bred each 5 times. They are milking in order of their calving dates. 57, 83, 66 & 54. 54# one is carrying twins and really dragging her down now with the heat. Cows to dry up in a month 3 of the 10 or so are milking over 100# yet. Wish I would have waiting to breed them another cycle
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby hornedfrogbbq » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:07 pm

bse wrote:bryan, i put a patch on them 17 days after breeding, then breed as needed, blood check 28 days after, then i have put a cidr in when i get the negative at 30 days. gonna recycle at around 42 anyway but with the cidr its on my terms. bbq really cant wrap my head around turning bulls in early, i understand good bulls, but id give the cows lute let the bulls do it, save that money. or just breed what needs breeding early. i do think turning bulls in day after in a commercial setting is a great idea.


Just giving it a try this time. We have seen that some cows come in earlier than our timed AI session...so we have a bull in there just in case. Then AI (we are working on building a really efficient, medium sized cow that has outstanding fertility and moderate milk) everything and bull in right afterwards. We were concerned about them fighting but that didn't happen.

Trying to find 1200 -1300lb cows that give moderate milk, retain their flesh and breed back after 45 days from calving is hard to do. We cull super hard on fertility/timing. It is too dry and hot down here for too much milk or frame size...at least we think it is.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:27 pm

frogBBQ - you are missing out on a lot of AI breeding that way. When I CIDR and Lutalyse, I may have 2 out of 15 that I end up time breeding. All the others already showed heat and were AI bred.
How do you know who to Time breed? Do you have a marker on your bull?
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby hornedfrogbbq » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:40 pm

We do a 7 day Co-synch with CIDR. So i think 2 days before our AI session, we put the bulls in on them. we figure we might catch a half dozen that way that will cycle BEFORE our session. Then we AI and the bulls are with them about an hour after the ai session.

thoughts? We're experimenting so if our conception rate on the first throw opportunity goes up, i'll be sure and post the results. If not, i'll post them after a drink or two.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:47 pm

So, you must not care who the calves are out of, just want to get the bull to breed as many as they can handle?
By turning the bull out 1 hour after AI "session", you do realize that the AI calf is potentially sired by your bull?
I really don't understand why you even bother to AI - I'm confused???? There is a very short window between pulling the CIDR and TAI.
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Re: 100% AI?

Postby hornedfrogbbq » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:00 pm

Exactly. I'm am mostly concerned with the highest pregnancy rate in the AI session regardless of the AI taking or the bull doing it. The bulls we buy are as good or better than most (IMHO...) and have very unique traits we are trying to foster in the retention of our heifers. I'm indifferent as to the AI session impregnating the cow or the bull later that day. We typically run about a 60-74% success rate in our AI program. I'd like to get 80% or better bred up in that 3 day-ish window.

We are AI'ing to bring in other genetics and target specific things we want out of specific cows. That being said, and not to have any ego in this because we screw-up all the time but we go through over 10,000 bulls for sale every year and target very specific bulls to buy. We buy all over the nation and we really like what we buy (or, when we make a mistake, they last one year and they are out of our program).

We have two Journey sons right now that won't make it a second year with us. Good bulls, registered and from a great cow family each...but we bought them young and knew we were taking a chance. We haven't liked the way they have grown out.

Bottom line: we can never "recapture" the 21 days if a cow doesn't get pregnant early in the season. That is at least 40lbs/head we will not sell since we sell all our steers at the same time. An increase in 10% on my conception rate around the AI heat will add over 1000lbs to our sales potentially. It will tighten up our calving window and it will make our calves more uniform if more are born at the same time as the AI.

Who knows...it may not work! We are just experimenting.
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