Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Breed your cows to the best bulls in the nation!
Air gator
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:09 pm

Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby Air gator » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:57 pm

This is a carryover from another post.

Just curious if you have seen calves out of Acclaim and Epic which you prefer and why?
I would love to hear any experiences with either bull...
I like them both.
0 x

Hogtiming
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby Hogtiming » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:28 pm

From what I have seen I think acclaim will have a little more width. Some of the epic weanlings that I have seen I thought they was knee knockers. That could change with age and that could also go back to the cows. I do not know I didn’t see the cows. Acclaim calves I have seen are nice. They may have a little more frame height for my liking. Acclaim son blackout I think looked better as a yearling than acclaim
0 x

Air gator
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:09 pm

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby Air gator » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:05 pm

I guess both bulls are nearly Frame 7? I wasn't aware of that.
0 x

User avatar
jscunn
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1302
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:52 am
Location: Northwest Florida

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby jscunn » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:35 am

I guess you all are now aware 3F Epic is NHC..
0 x

NEFarmwife
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby NEFarmwife » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:00 pm

jscunn wrote:I guess you all are now aware 3F Epic is NHC..

Yup! What a blow!

We have 9 ET’s and over half our heifers bred to him. Not too terribly concerned about commercial but darn it on the PB side.
0 x

LCBulls
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:18 am

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby LCBulls » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:22 pm

That’s too bad. Pedigree of one of the Sires must be off as well?
I wonder if EXAR Monumental 6056B will be a carrier also.
0 x

Katpau
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: Roseburg, Oregon

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby Katpau » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:45 pm

This is something that never should have happened. Genex and ABS require all bulls in their line-up be tested for all known and testable defects. Had that happened this would have been caught before hurting their customers. Unfortunately they decided to include Origen bulls, but they failed to require Origen to do that same testing. I hope that policy will now change. Epic's pedigree did not indicate a risk for NHC, but there is most likely an error somewhere in that pedigree. That happens more times than we like to think. Wrong straw, clean-up bull rather than AI, cows switch calves at birth. Lots of possibilities. I can think of at least 3 well known bulls that were later determined to have incorrect parentage, just in the last few years.

He has a genomic profile and was being offered to the general public with semen priced at $45 and certificates at $50. I don't understand why they did not spend an extra $8 each to test for defects? He still is not tested for AM or any of the other defects. I personally will never use a bull unless he has been tested for everything. That is the worst place I can think of for a breeder to save a few bucks. In a commercial herd there are probably plenty of NHC cows, so they will pay the price with open cows and an occasional dead, deformed calf when the buy this bulls carrier sons. With over a 1,000 weaning weights and many more calves not reported or still to be born, this 4 year old bull has just set the control of NH back years.

NEVER breed to an AI bull unless he has been tested for all serious defects.
1 x

W.B.
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: SD

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby W.B. » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:26 pm

Good advice. The other possibility is a false negative test on the maternal grandam. The Select Sires bull Tex Demand tested dd free once. Later he sired an affected calf and was discovered to be ddc. Mistakes are made sometimes.
0 x

NEFarmwife
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby NEFarmwife » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:04 pm

Katpau wrote:This is something that never should have happened. Genex and ABS require all bulls in their line-up be tested for all known and testable defects. Had that happened this would have been caught before hurting their customers. Unfortunately they decided to include Origen bulls, but they failed to require Origen to do that same testing. I hope that policy will now change. Epic's pedigree did not indicate a risk for NHC, but there is most likely an error somewhere in that pedigree. That happens more times than we like to think. Wrong straw, clean-up bull rather than AI, cows switch calves at birth. Lots of possibilities. I can think of at least 3 well known bulls that were later determined to have incorrect parentage, just in the last few years.

He has a genomic profile and was being offered to the general public with semen priced at $45 and certificates at $50. I don't understand why they did not spend an extra $8 each to test for defects? He still is not tested for AM or any of the other defects. I personally will never use a bull unless he has been tested for everything. That is the worst place I can think of for a breeder to save a few bucks. In a commercial herd there are probably plenty of NHC cows, so they will pay the price with open cows and an occasional dead, deformed calf when the buy this bulls carrier sons. With over a 1,000 weaning weights and many more calves not reported or still to be born, this 4 year old bull has just set the control of NH back years.

NEVER breed to an AI bull unless he has been tested for all serious defects.


Shows he was parent verified but looks as though not the dam but it’s my understanding, they don’t/can’t always test the dam? I know when we parent verified our donor, they did not have a sample to test against dam. So she’s just an SNP.
0 x

Air gator
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:09 pm

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby Air gator » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:14 pm

Very sorry to hear about Epic....but, you would think that every Angus bull would be required to be tested.
We have all been debating genomic testing and how it should be required but I think we all took it for granted that testing for genetic defects was understood.
0 x

NEFarmwife
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby NEFarmwife » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:40 pm

Air gator wrote:Very sorry to hear about Epic....but, you would think that every Angus bull would be required to be tested.
We have all been debating genomic testing and how it should be required but I think we all took it for granted that testing for genetic defects was understood.


I’m trying to understand their verbiage about not being NHC “by pedigree”...

Visually, he wouldn’t have been tested (if he were ours) because the AAA didn’t send me a message on the possible carrier report. Any time we get that, we opt to have them tested to become free of (hopefully)... so if by pedigree, he wasn’t a carrier, how did he get it? Is his pedigree incorrect? Then his dam passes away and they can no longer test her. Could they go back and DNA mark his grandam on maternal side to make sure that side is correct?
0 x

NEFarmwife
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby NEFarmwife » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:42 pm

Want to add, thinking along line of “mix up” of calves at birth.
0 x

LCBulls
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:18 am

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby LCBulls » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:19 am

His Grand Dam and Maternal Grandsire were tested NHF, so If it turns out that it came from the bottom side,then he must not be from MGS EF Complement 8088.
It is pretty rare for a ranch to get the wrong Dam, but more common to mix up the AI Sire. It’s not impossible, but less likely.
0 x

hornedfrogbbq
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:36 pm

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby hornedfrogbbq » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:16 pm

It is beyond me, for the exact reasons you all state above, that you don't fully test any bull for all genetic mutations (that can be tested for so far) if you are going to market and sell their semen. I realize mistakes happen in the dam/sire background but that is the primary reason to double check before you end up with 10,000 carriers.

We almost used him. Found out his mother prolapsed so he was out for us (which could have completely been a fluke)...but maybe that wasn't his mother after all!
0 x

dbird33
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:57 am

Re: Jindra Acclaim or 3F Epic 4631?

Postby dbird33 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:14 pm

One way to address this is for the Association to ban the sale of Registration Certificates for any bull that has not been tested for all known genetic defects. I'm chalking this one up as a lesson learned, as I ended up having a really nice heifer come back as a carrier this morning. I won't use a bull that hasn't been tested going forward.
0 x


Return to “Artificial Insemination (AI) for Cattle”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests