Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

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Dixie2542
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby Dixie2542 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:21 pm

Hogtiming wrote:Airgator President is worth it


I'm interested in hearing about your experience with him. Also I'm looking into hickok...thoughts? How did offspring turn out?
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bse
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby bse » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:16 pm

may get 2 racks of Chaps, 1 conventional and 1 sexed
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LCBulls
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby LCBulls » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:28 pm

NEFarmwife wrote:
LCBulls wrote:I have heard from a very reputable source that SAV President and Raindance are some of Kelly Schaffs best calves that he’s produced.
We have bred to both and will have calves this spring. I would rather pay more and get the ones that are better. Plus Herbsters’ semen quality is a step ahead of most, if not all other AI companies.


Hoping to see a lot of both of those calves this afternoon! We bred some of our PB to President this last spring.

We LOVE Herbster also. You get what you pay for.


Cool,I’d love to hear your impressions of their calfcrop. And if Raindance and President calves are really as impressive as the pictures and word of mouth suggest.
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NEFarmwife
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby NEFarmwife » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:28 am

LCBulls wrote:
NEFarmwife wrote:
LCBulls wrote:I have heard from a very reputable source that SAV President and Raindance are some of Kelly Schaffs best calves that he’s produced.
We have bred to both and will have calves this spring. I would rather pay more and get the ones that are better. Plus Herbsters’ semen quality is a step ahead of most, if not all other AI companies.


Hoping to see a lot of both of those calves this afternoon! We bred some of our PB to President this last spring.

We LOVE Herbster also. You get what you pay for.


Cool,I’d love to hear your impressions of their calfcrop. And if Raindance and President calves are really as impressive as the pictures and word of mouth suggest.

Was unable to get over there like we planned. Got our hands on a trencher, so work came first. Will be getting there soon though. I’ll update.

Maybe I can grab some pics as well.
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Bovine breeder
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby Bovine breeder » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:12 am

On the Simmental side, I think I’ll try Roosevelt this fall. Cowboy Cut X Sharper Image X Upgrade. Tons of growth potential there. Should be fun to watch them grow
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Air gator
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby Air gator » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:06 pm

My only problem with President and some other bulls is that they are not genomic tested.
I think it makes enough difference on epds that I would rather try a bull with genomic testing or wait until the bull is truly proven.
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LCBulls
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby LCBulls » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:25 pm

Air gator wrote:My only problem with President and some other bulls is that they are not genomic tested.
I think it makes enough difference on epds that I would rather try a bull with genomic testing or wait until the bull is truly proven.


Yeah, I hear what your saying. I think that they like to prove them out the old fashioned way and are not totally sold on the whole DNA deal. I also believe that they have all been done because for the longest time their BW EPD Accuracy was up in the+.50 along with WW and YW, but no other traits had high accuracy

They have all recently dropped their Accuracy back down to where they would be with no testing. I wonder if they had some sort of agreement with the Angus association about not posting them or something. Or only posting certain EPDs using the Genomics???

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NEFarmwife
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby NEFarmwife » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:12 am

Air gator wrote:My only problem with President and some other bulls is that they are not genomic tested.
I think it makes enough difference on epds that I would rather try a bull with genomic testing or wait until the bull is truly proven.

Purely rumor but from reputable people in the industry, it is said that those purchased from SAV are NOT allowed to be genomic tested. Also, any SAV still owned by SAV that is being collected on is not allowed to be genomic tested either. I’ve “heard” that there have been lawsuits threatened over this very thing. Puts some validity in this when you see that these bulls haven’t been. Can’t stop someone like ourselves from testing offspring but they’ve already then sold so many units off that bull.
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby NEFarmwife » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:21 am

NEFarmwife wrote:
Air gator wrote:My only problem with President and some other bulls is that they are not genomic tested.
I think it makes enough difference on epds that I would rather try a bull with genomic testing or wait until the bull is truly proven.

Purely rumor but from reputable people in the industry, it is said that those purchased from SAV are NOT allowed to be genomic tested. Also, any SAV still owned by SAV that is being collected on is not allowed to be genomic tested either. I’ve “heard” that there have been lawsuits threatened over this very thing. Puts some validity in this when you see that these bulls haven’t been. Can’t stop someone like ourselves from testing offspring but they’ve already then sold so many units off that bull.


I want to add that we have a SAV bull but could have genomic tested. However, this was a $8k bull, not an $800k bull. I’m sure if this is true, there is a monetary line to where this is established in contract or fear mongering.

And if they happen to have anyone who reads this board, I’d love for them to dispel the rumors.
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby Air gator » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:39 am

NEFarmwife,
I think that BullBarn ads can be off sometimes.
If you look at a registered Angus animal that has been genomic tested the type of test is noted.
I don't remember any SAV bull with genomic testing.
Connealy does test their bulls.

It is a good idea to wait to see the quality of calves anyway but in a flush I would like to know which bull is going to have a +30 for milk and which bull is going to have a +16 for milk. I am repeating myself here but I had a bull calf tested.
His epds would have been about 75 to 85 maybe for YW and his milk would have been about +21.
After the genomic testing his YW is now +104 and his milk dropped to +8.
I like SAV's animals but the genomic testing would help me decide which one to use.
I used Resource this year but with him I know what to expect for his milk.
And the thing about SAV is that there are so many bulls to choose from that are closely related and phenotypically look similar or may even be flush mates.

I think the one example of genomic testing making an impact is the Quaker Hill Manning flush.
I think there was a bull in that flush that was overlooked and then the genomic testing boosted him a bit.
Alta has him....Quaker Hill Mile High. (The genomic testing probably made Quaker Hill some money).
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby wbvs58 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:11 pm

I just looked up on the Angus Australia website and both SAV Renown and Resource have had genomics done. It is usually the first step now when semen is imported for it to be done to help with converting their EPD's to our EBV's so if you are familiar with our EBV numbers it may be a back door way of getting a line on the effect of genomics.

Ken
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby Air gator » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:57 pm

wbvs58,
I tried looking up the genomic testing from Australia with no luck.
It looks like they were tested for parents but not genomic tested.
I think it would be part of their ads if they were.

As for not being allowed to genomic test a SAV bull if they retain interest in the bull then they can make that decision.
To be honest, from a seller's standpoint I don't know there is any benefit to doing that. What would you gain, other than the same benefits a typical breeder would gain? You have much more to lose as a seller by genomic testing because there are fewer bulls that produce at a high level.
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wbvs58
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby wbvs58 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:46 pm

Air gator wrote:wbvs58,
I tried looking up the genomic testing from Australia with no luck.
It looks like they were tested for parents but not genomic tested.
I think it would be part of their ads if they were.

As for not being allowed to genomic test a SAV bull if they retain interest in the bull then they can make that decision.
To be honest, from a seller's standpoint I don't know there is any benefit to doing that. What would you gain, other than the same benefits a typical breeder would gain? You have much more to lose as a seller by genomic testing because there are fewer bulls that produce at a high level.


This link should bring up the EBV's
http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i ... 9=5B5F5C59
Where it says Traits Observed Genomics that refers to the full HD50K genomic profile. When I get a heifer"s genomics done I don't get to see any actual results from the likes of Zoetus now, I just get to see a change in the EBV's. We used to get a printout from Zoetus but since they changed to the single step calculations it just all happens in the system.

Ken
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby LCBulls » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:34 pm

NEFarmwife wrote:
Air gator wrote:My only problem with President and some other bulls is that they are not genomic tested.
I think it makes enough difference on epds that I would rather try a bull with genomic testing or wait until the bull is truly proven.

Purely rumor but from reputable people in the industry, it is said that those purchased from SAV are NOT allowed to be genomic tested. Also, any SAV still owned by SAV that is being collected on is not allowed to be genomic tested either. I’ve “heard” that there have been lawsuits threatened over this very thing. Puts some validity in this when you see that these bulls haven’t been. Can’t stop someone like ourselves from testing offspring but they’ve already then sold so many units off that bull.


I’m pretty sure that what you’re saying is correct. Those Charlo x 4136 flushmates were not allowed to be genomically tested against each other. Or at least the results not posted for a certain amount of time.
I think they probably do that so that they all have an equal shot of selling Semen to everybody without having one or two standouts on paper?

President (Herbster)
Rainfall (Select Sires)
Raindance (ST Genetics)
Governor (Herbster)
Rainmaster (ABS)
Reign (Genex)

All had much higher accuracy’s for BW, WW, YW. Only way that happens is if they are Genomically Tested.

Now they are all lower accuracy on those traits. Something very strange about that.

(Here’s Rainfall in 2018 Spring Directory)
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(Rainfall 2018 Fall Directory)
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Re: Which ABS Angus Sale Bulls?

Postby NEFarmwife » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:57 am

I believe based on what I’ve heard, that it’s to not expose the “real” numbers that these bulls produce.

By the time the accuracy is there to prove the actuals, they’ve already made bank on the semen sales and we’re all left with an “average” sire that may have produced big bw calves or a cow that couldn’t wean off a good calf.

What if these large seedstock producers never actually provided real numbers? BW, CE, YW, etc... We’ve all speculated this for quite a while.

We’ve purchased several PB bred heifers these last 8-9 months and they’ve calved. While we have these calves EPDs based off of the AAs calculations, we do plan to i50K them at weaning.

While I know EPDs aren’t for everyone or as important... I like to know what traits they’ve inherited from their pedigree. Both parents could have been a low BW but little heifer Sally may have gotten granddams heavy BW.
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