Pharo cattle company

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Stocker Steve
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Stocker Steve » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:44 pm

I like to keep it extra complicated. Currently we have:
- cow/calf (about 25% turn over per yr currently)
- back grounding (home raised plus purchased)
- bred heifers (sell the big cut after second summer and retain smaller cut)

I stock 1.0 to 1.4 acres/AMU, so I have been increasing the percentage of yearlings for flexibility and a higher gross margin. I run heifers with cows most of the time so the production is not a lot of extra work. Still working through how to market them best. I think that is a weak link.

We are still grazing good fescue/legume stockpile. Will be on hay for a couple weeks before the bred cull cows and the big bred heifers are sold. Steers/culls will go to back grounding. Retained heifer calves will stay on the cows. Then the artic vortex arrives. :shock:


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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Nesikep » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:40 am

I think if you're doing direct marketing and have yuppie customers that like 5 ounce steaks, then the Pharo cattle might work and be more profitable.. they ought to finish earlier, though smaller.

jscunn wrote:A couple of things, at some point buyers are gonna remember those 380# steers that finish at 900 and hang less than 600# carcasses. The packer, feedlot manager, and the buyer will all remember those steers. Next years 380# steers wont bring near as much in relation to the market as the first set.

Exactly.. Yeah, some years buyers will get into fisticuffs for the lightweight calves.. but if they do that with these they'll probably have buyers remorse next year when they're still not 1000 lbs.. I had a dink in 2015.. 350ish lbs and they paid $3.50/lb for him.. I don't think he's 1000 yet!

THIS year however the 5wts sold for less per pound than 6 wts!.. my big group was 550lb average and I was among the highest price per pound of the sale.. I'm going for a moderate animal, my ideal cows are around a frame 5 and 1400 lbs or so.. small enough not to be a giant, and big enough to still grow to the required size.

After looking at the deductions from the sale barn for 17 head I do have to work on finding another way to market them direct to a feed lot.. $600 for 17 calves is just stupid
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Stocker Steve » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:27 am

The bulls I am looking at weaned in a range from 487# to 543#. So not dinks, :nod: and their calves would be larger than that out of my cows.

With high March future prices this fall - - feeders wanted bigger/older calves that would kill in the spring and be sold before Fathers Day. Some folks see this as a call for framy terminal crosses being winter calved in February and early March. I am not so sure. I think gross margin per acre would higher grazing yearlings. Our cool season pasture, and the feed consumed by growing calves, usually means pasture stockpile goes down a lot in late July and August, which is a very good time to sell grass yearlings. :cowboy:

I doubt a much higher March futures price will be repeated every year. I think the summer slump for grass growth is more predictable. Either way, selling grass yearlings in August looks like a winner after the price cycle bottoms. :banana:
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Ebenezer » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:58 am

If you try "small cattle genetics" be sure that the bull or semen you buy is going to follow the cow and not be prepotent for small. It is a costly lesson/mistake. Homework and hard knocks makes us all look smarter when show up and buy. I'm sure there is a place for small, but honestly you do quit the mainstream to chase that dream. Where the quitter sell their calves? Apparently not around here.

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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Nesikep » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:09 am

Stocker Steve wrote:The bulls I am looking at weaned in a range from 487# to 543#. So not dinks, :nod: and their calves would be larger than that out of my cows.

With high March future prices this fall - - feeders wanted bigger/older calves that would kill in the spring and be sold before Fathers Day. Some folks see this as a call for framy terminal crosses being winter calved in February and early March. I am not so sure. I think gross margin per acre would higher grazing yearlings. Our cool season pasture, and the feed consumed by growing calves, usually means pasture stockpile goes down a lot in late July and August, which is a very good time to sell grass yearlings. :cowboy:

I doubt a much higher March futures price will be repeated every year. I think the summer slump for grass growth is more predictable. Either way, selling grass yearlings in August looks like a winner after the price cycle bottoms. :banana:


The bulls I'm looking at had an 800-900 lb weaning weight at 9 months old, grass only, no creep
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by ALACOWMAN » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:42 am

Stocker Steve wrote:The bulls I am looking at weaned in a range from 487# to 543#. So not dinks, :nod: and their calves would be larger than that out of my cows.

With high March future prices this fall - - feeders wanted bigger/older calves that would kill in the spring and be sold before Fathers Day. Some folks see this as a call for framy terminal crosses being winter calved in February and early March. I am not so sure. I think gross margin per acre would higher grazing yearlings. Our cool season pasture, and the feed consumed by growing calves, usually means pasture stockpile goes down a lot in late July and August, which is a very good time to sell grass yearlings. :cowboy:

I doubt a much higher March futures price will be repeated every year. I think the summer slump for grass growth is more predictable. Either way, selling grass yearlings in August looks like a winner after the price cycle bottoms. :banana:

You ever looked at Occ Bulls? I'm using one on Brahman cross cows...
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Ky hills » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 am

ALACOWMAN wrote:
Stocker Steve wrote:The bulls I am looking at weaned in a range from 487# to 543#. So not dinks, :nod: and their calves would be larger than that out of my cows.

With high March future prices this fall - - feeders wanted bigger/older calves that would kill in the spring and be sold before Fathers Day. Some folks see this as a call for framy terminal crosses being winter calved in February and early March. I am not so sure. I think gross margin per acre would higher grazing yearlings. Our cool season pasture, and the feed consumed by growing calves, usually means pasture stockpile goes down a lot in late July and August, which is a very good time to sell grass yearlings. :cowboy:

I doubt a much higher March futures price will be repeated every year. I think the summer slump for grass growth is more predictable. Either way, selling grass yearlings in August looks like a winner after the price cycle bottoms. :banana:

You ever looked at Occ Bulls? I'm using one on Brahman cross cows...


Good suggestion. If I were going to use a smaller frame Angus, OCC may be a more mainstream option that wouldn't be quite as small frame as Pharo type cattle. Bulls like OCC Emblazon or Missing Link can sire some nice looking calves, thats the two Bulls that i have seen several calves from and had a few from sons.

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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by ALACOWMAN » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:23 pm

You'll get moderate frame, with """plenty""of depth.. Exactly what I was shooting for...easy keeping momas ..they get fat just looking at grass..
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Lucky_P » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:24 am

PMed Steve, but I'll throw it out here, too.
Green Garden Angus bulls are also worth a look.
Moderate frame, positive $EN, with emphasis on marbling, rib eye, and tenderness. Good maternal and carcass genetics.

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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Nesikep » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:59 am

Dogs and Cows wrote:Are the Wye cattle too small framed??

Oldtimer here has a lot of Wye genetics in his herd.. haven't seen him here in a while though... For my tastes they are a little small, but they seem to do very well in Montana
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by ALACOWMAN » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:57 pm

Dogs and Cows wrote:
Nesikep wrote:
Dogs and Cows wrote:Are the Wye cattle too small framed??

Oldtimer here has a lot of Wye genetics in his herd.. haven't seen him here in a while though... For my tastes they are a little small, but they seem to do very well in Montana


I went to their sale in April of this year. They are smaller and the bulls are small framed...but tanks. I was definitely intrigued...
Thanks Nesi!

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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by ALACOWMAN » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:59 pm

Nesikep wrote:
Dogs and Cows wrote:Are the Wye cattle too small framed??

Oldtimer here has a lot of Wye genetics in his herd.. haven't seen him here in a while though... For my tastes they are a little small, but they seem to do very well in Montana

He may still be posting on ranchers,,in between the crickets chirping...
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Nesikep » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:26 pm

I see him on facebook a fair bit
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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by JWBrahman » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:42 am

WalnutCrest wrote:
Ebenezer wrote:
WalnutCrest wrote:I've wondered about running a framier, yet calving-ease, bull on Pharo cows ...

Hard to get "small" out of cows once you get it in them. Genetic "small" is persistent.


To avoid any uncertainty, I've never owned a Pharo cow or bull (although I did buy some semen on the Mashona bull he sells semen from) ... just wondering if that's a solution for anyone who things the calves from his bulls are too small.

It's easy to pot-shot almost everyone's program. Pharo is no different.

Seedstock producers need to produce what they produce, and do it consistently so that other people know what they're getting when they get breeding animals from them -- buyer beware. Pharo (imo) does that.

You may not like what he's doing, but he is doing it pretty consistently year in and year out, and so the people who buy his bulls can be really pretty confident that they'll get what they want if they buy a bull from him.


If you sell beef directly to the average person the cattle that sell are going to be different than what a packer wants to buy. The packers want a big animal that has a carcass weight closer to 900lbs. The average household isn't interested in buying a half that is 450 pounds, they are wanting something that will fit in the freezer.

At some point these heavy weights are going to come back and bite us all in the azzz. A 1600 pound steer just doesn't have the tender flavor of a calf that goes straight to slaughter from the pasture. But a 1600 lb steer is more profitable for the packer to slaughter than two 800 pound steers that may taste better.

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Re: Pharo cattle company

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:26 am

You are talking really extremes. A 1600# steer would give you over a 1000# hot carcass.
Taste comes from age not size. If they are keeping steers a lot longer, then they will have more taste, but not be more tender. Tenderness is better younger.
I have a friend with a Wye angus bull. Frame 3 - way too small for my liking, but I saw a heifer calf that was really, really nice. Winter Springs on here (Josh) owns 1/2 the bull).
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