black baldy heifers

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon May 28, 2018 10:25 am

And, to the original poster, if you are in Texas, a little ear is not a bad idea.
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon May 28, 2018 10:48 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:There are some good well muscled Angus around, but if I were Angus I would be ashamed at how the Hereford breed has come on and have much better rear quarters than the majority of Angus I see. Trust me, I am not out to bash Angus. If I ever wanted to raise crossbred, commercial cattle it would be Angus x Simmental. The two breeds really, really compliment each other.


Would you give some specifics on this cross, vs. baldies or limflex, in the north ?
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon May 28, 2018 11:28 am

Original "baldies" were Hereford x Angus. You got great heterosis/hybred vigor crossing two PB breeds.
Then the continentals came along. Best heterosis was crossing two different groups, using 1 from british and 1 from Continental.
The further you get away from the gene pool, the more genetic "kick" you get (free money because of the increased ww on the first cross and the increase cow power using a crossbred dam.
MARC research showed Angus was #1 in marbling for all british breeds. Simmental was #1 for all Continentals. See the report data below: (CT is not letting me space stuff out, so you will have to just read across. It gives you the trait, then the ranking for Simmental, then the ranking for Angus): this chart was copywritten in 2015, but I don't know when the research at MARC was dated.

Economic Traits Simmental Ranking Among Continental Breeds Angus Ranking Among British Breeds

Calving Ease First (Tie) First
Weaning Weight First First
Percent Choice First Second
Carcass Weight First First
Post Wean Gain First First
Pounds of Retail Product Second First
Shear Force First (Tie) First
Feed Efficiency by Weight Gain First Second
Feed Efficiency by Marbling First First
Feed Efficiency by Retail Product First Second
Feed Efficiency by Days Second Second
Percent Puberty First Second
Percent Pregnancy Second Third
Maternal Calving Ease First Second
Maternal Weaning Weight Second First
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon May 28, 2018 11:35 am

I cannot comment on Limflex - but they are basically the same idea - Continental crossed with British
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon May 28, 2018 11:59 am

Just shipped a reg Simi bull today. Too framy and not much respect for people, but he looked really good getting on the trailer. Still have two sim angus and two angus bulls in the pen. Looked for a Hereford bull this spring but came up empty.

My main issue with Simi is they are not as maternal as some other breeds. I don't think MARC evaluated that trait, and many of the traits Simi leads on are not ones that the calf producers is paid for. So, I think a baldy bred simi will make the most $$$ for a lower input commercial operation in the north.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon May 28, 2018 2:58 pm

Well, we must be doing something wrong, since Simmental is supposed to be THE maternal breed. Sorry, they have not, are not, working out for you. Obviously, you run a lot of cows, you know what is working for you.
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon May 28, 2018 3:10 pm

I have too many cows, and like to calve on pasture, so usually they need to mother up on their own.

I have noticed that several of these casual simi mothers will let anyone suck, so I think they could make good nurse cows.
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby runner » Mon May 28, 2018 9:58 pm

I heard buyers in KY don't like Simmental. Here its black or charolais cattle. That bring the most.

Alot are getting Hereford bulls here know
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby BRYANT » Mon May 28, 2018 10:02 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:And, to the original poster, if you are in Texas, a little ear is not a bad idea.

If they had some ear I could sale every heifer out of them for a GOOD above market price. and steers would take a very small, if any, hit at the right sale.
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby BRYANT » Mon May 28, 2018 10:04 pm

I just noticed you are from Ky. probably not the right part of the country to talk about adding ear to cattle.
Last edited by BRYANT on Tue May 29, 2018 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Son of Butch » Mon May 28, 2018 10:47 pm

Speaking of MARC thought I'd have a little fun at the expense of Simmental lovers with MARC data about 45 yrs old.

Data compares Holstein bulls with Simmental bulls from 2 different years.
Holstein bulls were bred to f1 Angus x Hereford cows.
Simmental bulls bred to pure Angus and pure Hereford cows to produce f1s.

Holstein sired 93% conception, gestation 281 days bw 83.8 lbs unassisted births 92% survival to weaning 92.8%
pounds weaned per cow exposed 492 lbs
Simmental 89% conception, gestation 286.4 days bw 84.9 lbs unassisted births 89% survival to weaning 88.8%
pounds weaned per cow exposed 443 lbs (Simmental bulls had 9 lb advantage on calves that survived to weaning)

Not a fair test as old data from different years and different cows..... but still fun. :)
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue May 29, 2018 5:00 am

Interesting - shows how those crossbred cows will out-perform purebreds!!! LOL Can't beat those black baldy cows.
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby elkwc » Tue May 29, 2018 5:53 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:elkwc - I totally agree on the moderation of frame size - all breeds. Way back when, the Angus breed bashed the Simmental breed with ads about the Elephant breed. Then the Angus breeders started chasing frame & then they became the Elephant breed, because we had already started down-sizing. Now all breeds have moderated, but last report I saw, Angus was the biggest cow breed.
There are some good well muscled Angus around, but if I were Angus I would be ashamed at how the Hereford breed has come on and have much better rear quarters than the majority of Angus I see. Trust me, I am not out to bash Angus. If I ever wanted to raise crossbred, commercial cattle it would be Angus x Simmental. The two breeds really, really compliment each other. The Angus breeders just need to quit looking solely at numbers & open their eyes & LOOK at what they are producing.
I agree we have lost size. My WW used to run in high 700's (actual), average (heifers, steers & bulls), now they average high 600's (actual). Lost 100#, but I have the right kind of cattle - for commercial or purebred, IMHO. Even my 7-9 frame cows I used to have ran on grass & hay.
Not questioning the type of cattle around you, but with what I see and know, it's hard to believe that the heaviest milking breed in the past, is not milking as well as Angus & Hereford. No where close in any herds I have seen.
Jeanne I was away all weekend down where the cows are and just got home last evening. Will post a reply this afternoon. I agree with much of what you said and very similar to what I see here with a few exceptions maybe.
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Gators Rule » Tue May 29, 2018 10:57 am

Stocker Steve wrote:I have too many cows, and like to calve on pasture, so usually they need to mother up on their own.

I have noticed that several of these casual simi mothers will let anyone suck, so I think they could make good nurse cows.


Mine calve on pasture all the time. It's either that or in a drainage canal. Simmental cows letting anyone suck must be a Minneasota thing. Florida Simmental cows just kick when another mouth comes a calling... However some will allow a calf to be grafted on if they lose a calf, but it's going to take a little time and elbow grease.
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Re: black baldy heifers

Postby Ky hills » Tue May 29, 2018 1:35 pm

Gators Rule wrote:
Stocker Steve wrote:I have too many cows, and like to calve on pasture, so usually they need to mother up on their own.

I have noticed that several of these casual simi mothers will let anyone suck, so I think they could make good nurse cows.


Mine calve on pasture all the time. It's either that or in a drainage canal. Simmental cows letting anyone suck must be a Minneasota thing. Florida Simmental cows just kick when another mouth comes a calling... However some will allow a calf to be grafted on if they lose a calf, but it's going to take a little time and elbow grease.


Can't speak as to Simmentals but used to have some Charolais cows that would let other calves suck. It wasn't but a few of the cows that would let them, but it was very common to see 2 or 3 calves nursing sometimes, once saw 4 just going to town like it was their mother, and she was just standing chewing her cud.
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