Why so much emphasis on the rump?

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: Why so much emphasis on the rump?

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:51 am

Son of Butch wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I would never be willing to "lose" muscling to "add marbling" using Waigu bulls.
"Generally", the muscle pattern you see on the rump is indicative of muscle throughout the whole carcass.

Not even if it increased the NET VALUE of the carcass by taking it from Low Choice to High Choice or Prime?
Seems short sighted to me... but to each their own, I do understand personal preference and eye appeal.
But the consumer sees only what's on their plate... not what is in the pasture.

I am talking $$$. NET VALUE. We get paid by the pound for: feeder steers, cull cows, freezer beef.
A "young" Choice 2 animal is going to be a great eating experience. Why would I give up muscle size for more marbling. Makes no sense to me. And, how strong is your market going to be? How much can you sell super high price of novelty beef?
High dollar for less meat doesn't necessarily = more money (NET VALUE).
People want to jump on the band wagon for these novelty breeds. No matter how big or small your animal is, they take just as much farm labor to take care of them.


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Re: Why so much emphasis on the rump?

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:54 am

Ebenezer wrote:Does your desired steer look exactly like your ideal cow which also looks like your model bull? If so, your have erased normal male or female sexual phenotype from your intact animals and your herd will always suffer with the overall herd fertility and production. That is the current problem (one of them) in US cattle. The market steer is the model for all males and females.

I tell everyone - if you want your heifers/cows to ACT like a female, they need to LOOK like a female - not a steer. Might not be right all the time, but I stick to that assumption for my overall assessment of cattle. Same goes with a bull. You don't want him to look like a cow.
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Re: Why so much emphasis on the rump?

Post by Son of Butch » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:56 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I would never be willing to "lose" muscling to "add marbling" using Waigu bulls.
"Generally", the muscle pattern you see on the rump is indicative of muscle throughout the whole carcass.

Not even if it increased the NET VALUE of the carcass by taking it from Low Choice to High Choice or Prime?
Seems short sighted to me... but to each their own, I do understand personal preference and eye appeal.
But the consumer sees only what's on their plate... not what is in the pasture.

I am talking $$$. NET VALUE.

No you are not talking net carcass value....
as it only shows itself with hide off, that is why live show followed by carcass show has value while straight live show
is for entertainment purposes only. A carcass show reveals misconceptions from the live ring and I've never seen results
from a live show with a reasonable number of entries where any judge got them 100% based on retail carcass value.

Improving a carcass from select to low choice or to high choice or even low prime is not fancy novelty beef.
GAR high marbling angus bulls and perhaps 1/4 wagyu have a place in the market for improving every day beef.

I think you meant Net Profit for your local market and feed efficiency with high marbling bulls is a real concern.
BUT to say I would never sacrifice pounds to improve quality is short sighted.

(Perhaps it's the sign of a true simmental breeder... :lol2: sorry I couldn't help myself Jeanne and not anything personal)

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Re: Why so much emphasis on the rump?

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:55 pm

Butch - I'm not talking about showing cattle. I don't even show steers - but that's another subject.
I am talking net carcass value. You receive dollars per pound times number of pounds. Very simple. I do not think the "consistent" premium for prime over the price of choice will make you more money on a small carcass weight.
You are now talking about 1/4 Wagyu, so that may not reduce the pounds as much, but it also will not increase the quality grade that much.
https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/nw_ls410.txt
If you had a 700# carcass
Prime $202.38 x 700 = $1416
Choice $193.37 x 700 = $1354 (a difference of $62)
BUT, if your Prime Wagyu only weights 600#, you are looking at $1214 ( a diff of $140 less than Choice at 700#)
And I am betting your 1/2 blood Wagyu carcass is going to weigh at least 100# less than a conventional breed - same age.
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Re: Why so much emphasis on the rump?

Post by Son of Butch » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:41 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I do not think the "consistent" premium for prime over the price of choice will make you more money on a smaller
carcass weight.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/nw_ls410.txt
If you had a 700# carcass
Prime $202.38 x 700 = $1416
Choice $193.37 x 700 = $1354 (a difference of $62)

Good post Jeanne.
By the way the link also is good for answering the common question.......
"What is a fair price to pay/charge for freezer beef?"

For a Prime carcass $2.0238 lb plus 7.62 cents lb delivery = $2.10 hanging weight plus processing

(IMO more than $2.70 lb hanging weight plus processing is price gouging)

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Re: Why so much emphasis on the rump?

Post by ALACOWMAN » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:58 pm

Redgully wrote:
Ebenezer wrote:Does your desired steer look exactly like your ideal cow which also looks like your model bull? If so, your have erased normal male or female sexual phenotype from your intact animals and your herd will always suffer with the overall herd fertility and production. That is the current problem (one of them) in US cattle. The market steer is the model for all males and females.


That is where red polls excel. The males are beefy and the females are feminine. The meat is packed with flavour and the yield is very high. But their muscle is oval shaped so they get judged poorly from eye appraisals because they don't have big buts. Their ema is very high compared to most breeds. Sadly this eye appraisal is killing the breed.

That's a breed that's went the way of the buffalo around here... I had one old cow back in the 80s...you can't find one around now...might find ancestors that went through, all the next hot breed transformation...
someone said I should follow my dreams,,so I went back to bed...

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Re: Why so much emphasis on the rump?

Post by Redgully » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:14 pm

ALACOWMAN wrote:
Redgully wrote:
Ebenezer wrote:Does your desired steer look exactly like your ideal cow which also looks like your model bull? If so, your have erased normal male or female sexual phenotype from your intact animals and your herd will always suffer with the overall herd fertility and production. That is the current problem (one of them) in US cattle. The market steer is the model for all males and females.


That is where red polls excel. The males are beefy and the females are feminine. The meat is packed with flavour and the yield is very high. But their muscle is oval shaped so they get judged poorly from eye appraisals because they don't have big buts. Their ema is very high compared to most breeds. Sadly this eye appraisal is killing the breed.

That's a breed that's went the way of the buffalo around here... I had one old cow back in the 80s...you can't find one around now...might find ancestors that went through, all the next hot breed transformation...


Yeah it is vanishing fast here too. Australia, the U.K. and America are the last three countries where the breed is still hanging in there with decent numbers. Live steer judging they get smashed but on the hook do astonishingly well.
But the breed only has itself to blame, not many progressive people in it and usually three steps behind other breeds. They had some really talented breeders but got shouted down by the old dinosaurs and a lot of them left the breed. Jamaica uses the breed alot as the base of their composite breed and it was also used in the development of the senepol breed.

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Re: Why so much emphasis on the rump?

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:07 pm

Well, I'm gouging my customers - $3/lb hot carcass weight including heart, liver & tongue - whether they take it or not.
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