Pictures by a Shyster

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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ALACOWMAN
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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by ALACOWMAN » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:47 am

Dogs and Cows wrote:There has obviously been a nerve touched here...it appears that to be called a multiplier is a bad thing. Who knew....LOL

It's only bad,in the context it's being used...if you raise cattle from the ground up,you are in a sense a multiplier...


as an adult,it's clear to me now...why Ernest T Bass, threw rocks at people..

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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by Silver » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:48 pm

I suppose the term "breeder" is different depending on perspective. I don't paper my cattle, but this ranch has been keeping it's own replacements for almost 70 years, and introducing bulls to fit the objective of making a better female with the understanding that better females produce better calves. They may be mutts, but they are mutts that we have developed over 3 generations, and if and when I sell replacement heifers people know what they are getting and what my program is.
I suppose what I am trying to say is that I think there is more to "breeding" than paperwork, and more than one kind of "breeder"

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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by Gators Rule » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:14 pm

This thread started out with a humorous tone, and continues in a hilarious tone. The common denominator is a whole bunch of individual opinions on terminology. A breeder can be purebred and/or commercial, and if they are successful, they are multiplying. Why does it matter if someone is matching an individual AI bull to a particular female. Sounds kind of smart to me! If I had the time, that is exactly what I'd do....whether purebred or commercial. I have some cows (someone else's genetics) I purchased. Then, I went out and bought a bull to breed those cows.....again someone else's genetics. BUT, the second the resulting calves hit the ground, they are my genetics, regardless of good or bad results. Now I have generations of those same genetics, and I'm pleased on most of the results.

I just wanted to throw some more worthless opinions into the mix. :)
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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by True Grit Farms » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:22 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:"A breeder breeds what they feel works in their environment and will hopefully improve their genetics. A multiplier breeds towards trends and the market. Seems the multipliers are more money driven than the breeders. But there’s quite a few long time breeders that have become multipliers, causing the quality of their animals to diminish. You better look closely at the animals breeders are selling, because a multiplier can produce just as good an animal for a lot less money."
Grit - I think you are babbling to hear yourself talk.
First, if you are following "trends" (multiplier by your terms), then you are paying a whole lot more for semen than just using old homegrown genetics (breeder).
I shouldn't take your comments personally, but to me, as a BREEDER, they are insulting. I do use current AI bulls, but only the ones that fit what I am trying to produce - and they can be extremely costly. A breeder SHOULD stay current with trends, if they suit your breeding program and your BUYERS. Bottom line (which you make sounds like it's offensive) is to make MONEY, while we are having fun. :banana:
You are so intent on insulting BR, you are not making good sense.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, really just the opposite. I consider myself a multiplier, every heifer that we sell is sired by and bred to someone else's bull. But I do breed towards,my environment and what works for me.
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:40 pm

Gator - that is exactly right. I really didn't mean only PB were breeders just because they did the paper work. Just was trying to make a point. Anyway, whether you spend time looking for a walking bull that fits your cattle & program or purchase semen, it is a conscience effort to upgrade or breed quality offspring every breeding season.
It's all in what we perceive. In my book, being referred to as a multiplier, is insulting. I do more than reproduce offspring (a multiplier). A breeder tries to pick bulls (live or semen) that IMPROVE their cows - whether they are $500 cows or $5000 cows. A multiplier (IMHO) just put bulls & cows together to get a live calf.
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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by Muddy » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:52 pm

Typical drama show as usual.

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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by Bright Raven » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:08 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:"A breeder breeds what they feel works in their environment and will hopefully improve their genetics. A multiplier breeds towards trends and the market. Seems the multipliers are more money driven than the breeders. But there’s quite a few long time breeders that have become multipliers, causing the quality of their animals to diminish. You better look closely at the animals breeders are selling, because a multiplier can produce just as good an animal for a lot less money."
Grit - I think you are babbling to hear yourself talk.
First, if you are following "trends" (multiplier by your terms), then you are paying a whole lot more for semen than just using old homegrown genetics (breeder).
I shouldn't take your comments personally, but to me, as a BREEDER, they are insulting. I do use current AI bulls, but only the ones that fit what I am trying to produce - and they can be extremely costly. A breeder SHOULD stay current with trends, if they suit your breeding program and your BUYERS. Bottom line (which you make sounds like it's offensive) is to make MONEY, while we are having fun. :banana:
You are so intent on insulting BR, you are not making good sense.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, really just the opposite. I consider myself a multiplier, every heifer that we sell is sired by and bred to someone else's bull. But I do breed towards,my environment and what works for me.


I got to say: I did not take anything in this thread as an insult nor did I think anyone was out of order.

It was started in humor but has led to some interesting debate.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by True Grit Farms » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:29 pm

Muddy wrote:Typical drama show as usual.

I think it's been a great debate. There's no winners besides the cattle. The fact is we all started with someone else's genetics. Would an operation like GAR be considered a breeder or multiplier?
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by elkwc » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:12 pm

To me I call a multiplier/trader one who has been in the business for several years but they have little if any cows that they have raised. A breeder is one whether registered or commercial who has cow lines that carry his prefix for more than a generation. A breeder may use all AI sires but he retains his females and upgrades his herd by raising them and not buying them. I personally like to buy from a breeder where I see his prefix on the cow side go back several generations. Now I understand on a newer breeder you aren't going to find that. And you can still find quality animals in their pens. The bull we bought last spring was by an AI sire and a purchased female. I feel he is a quality animal. And in that sale I don't believe there was one animal sold out of a cow that carried this owners prefix. He hasn't been in business but 8-10 years but still to be called a breeder I feel he would of had at least a few that carried his prefix even if only one generation. I do know he is retaining heifers now so likely in the future there will be some. Up to this point though I would call him a multiplier and not a breeder. And that is just how I was raised. Not saying it is right or wrong.

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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:56 pm

Muddy wrote:Typical drama show as usual.


Thank you for stopping by mudman.
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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by sim.-ang.king » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:13 pm

Listening to all you hobby farmers spat over what title you want makes me laugh.

If you ain't an big timer, you ain't nothin. :cowboy:
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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by Farm Fence Solutions » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:48 pm

Muddy wrote:Typical drama show as usual.


What would you know about it? Everybody knows you can't make any money with trashy cows and scrub bulls anyhow. :lol: ;-) :lol:
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by Bright Raven » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:01 pm

Farm Fence Solutions wrote:
Muddy wrote:Typical drama show as usual.


What would you know about it? Everybody knows you can't make any money with trashy cows and scrub bulls anyhow. :lol: ;-) :lol:


Don't insult my buddy, Muddy.
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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by Silver » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:13 pm

sim.-ang.king wrote:Listening to all you hobby farmers spat over what title you want makes me laugh.

If you ain't an big timer, you ain't nothin. :cowboy:


It takes us little hobby farmers to make you big shots feel good about yourselves :kid:

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Re: Pictures by a Shyster

Post by gcreekrch » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:40 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Kris - I totally understand that. I was just pointing out that brands are not the norm out here. Rare that we see a brand - other than like HPF and they only branded what they were breeder.




Trust thy neighbor but brand all your calves! :cboy:
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