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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:41 pm
by Ky hills
Bar23 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:44 pm
lithuanian farmer wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:44 pm
The news have spread quite quickly already. Also saw how some people reacted to it. That's some mad money for sure. He might be perfect for American industry, but he's lacking for what market needs in Europe. Maybe some will order straws. I believe some will want to have some progeny from a world record bull. But he doesn't look too eye appealing for a commercial farmer. Short in height, too much of the belly and lack of meat in the rear. He sure has some extraordinary growth and I'd be tempted to try him out if he was available here for a smaller cost for a straw. One farmer has mentioned under this bull's sale video that he has some very similar looking angus heifers and he was told that market doesn't need such type animals...
. If he was named “S A V Europe” you would probably buy his straws and have a different opinion.
I think that is an unfortunate and misguided statement. Lithuanian Farmer is always a very welcome and respected contributor on this forum. They merely stated critiques that had been heard there. They were believable critiques and not disrespectful. If you read their post it clearly states that they believe some would want to use the bull, and that they would be willing to if the price was lower. That does not sound like a total rejection of the bull to me. If everyone started buying cattle based on the name of the animal, I cant think that would be responsible approach to quality animal husbandry.

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:56 pm
by Brookhill Angus
gcreekrch wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:11 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:14 pm
gcreekrch wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:16 pm
Mr. Brookhill Angus, you may have purebred cattle but your posts remind me of a cross between the singing frog and Foghorn Leghorn that once graced the Bugs Bunny hour.
Talk is cheap, results are the only thing that matters.
You said it, I didn't.

My results work well for me, I even use my own, home raised bulls. In 2017, I held the title of the highest priced feeder calves in North America for the months from June to late October. Would you refer to those as results?

I am very happy that the dollars are working for you, using all someone else's genetics. For myself, the almighty dollar isn't as important.
Now we are getting somewhere.

Can you post the registration numbers of your bulls, if registered, or some DNA data so we can all see how you pulled that off, unless it’s a secret? What is the general pedigree or make up of your females?

What you accomplished is impressive, something to be proud of. You could help a lot of people on here if you were to share more about how you did it, again, unless it’s a secret.

One last question, do you feel that if you were to use a bull such as SAV America or even a bull such as Sydgen Enhance that you would set your program back?

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:26 am
by Brookhill Angus
Ky hills wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:41 pm
Bar23 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:44 pm
lithuanian farmer wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:44 pm
The news have spread quite quickly already. Also saw how some people reacted to it. That's some mad money for sure. He might be perfect for American industry, but he's lacking for what market needs in Europe. Maybe some will order straws. I believe some will want to have some progeny from a world record bull. But he doesn't look too eye appealing for a commercial farmer. Short in height, too much of the belly and lack of meat in the rear. He sure has some extraordinary growth and I'd be tempted to try him out if he was available here for a smaller cost for a straw. One farmer has mentioned under this bull's sale video that he has some very similar looking angus heifers and he was told that market doesn't need such type animals...
. If he was named “S A V Europe” you would probably buy his straws and have a different opinion.
I think that is an unfortunate and misguided statement. Lithuanian Farmer is always a very welcome and respected contributor on this forum. They merely stated critiques that had been heard there. They were believable critiques and not disrespectful. If you read their post it clearly states that they believe some would want to use the bull, and that they would be willing to if the price was lower. That does not sound like a total rejection of the bull to me. If everyone started buying cattle based on the name of the animal, I cant think that would be responsible approach to quality animal husbandry.
Things are getting heated on here, and I have to agree with you KY Hills on your statement above. I didn’t sense that LF was putting the bull down. I can imagine there are places in Europe where SAV America would look like a Hummer next to a Mini. I will say this, if European Angus breeders in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s had been able to see SAV America 8018, I think they would be stunned.

I personally don’t understand why a bull like America wouldn’t bring something to the table in Europe, but I do realize that Europe probably does not have the same cattle as we have here in the states.

As for Angus in other countries, I think this guy in Australia has some of the best looking Angus cattle I’ve ever seen. Oh and he likes big frame.

www.bit.ly/2Dw6dNT

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:54 am
by Ky hills
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:26 am
Ky hills wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:41 pm
Bar23 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:44 pm
. If he was named “S A V Europe” you would probably buy his straws and have a different opinion.
I think that is an unfortunate and misguided statement. Lithuanian Farmer is always a very welcome and respected contributor on this forum. They merely stated critiques that had been heard there. They were believable critiques and not disrespectful. If you read their post it clearly states that they believe some would want to use the bull, and that they would be willing to if the price was lower. That does not sound like a total rejection of the bull to me. If everyone started buying cattle based on the name of the animal, I cant think that would be responsible approach to quality animal husbandry.
Things are getting heated on here, and I have to agree with you KY Hills on your statement above. I didn’t sense that LF was putting the bull down. I can imagine there are places in Europe where SAV America would look like a Hummer next to a Mini. I will say this, if European Angus breeders in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s had been able to see SAV America 8018, I think they would be stunned.

I personally don’t understand why a bull like America wouldn’t bring something to the table in Europe, but I do realize that Europe probably does not have the same cattle as we have here in the states.

As for Angus in other countries, I think this guy in Australia has some of the best looking Angus cattle I’ve ever seen. Oh and he likes big frame.

www.bit.ly/2Dw6dNT
Yes, some very good looking Angus from Australia in that video.

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 am
by Redgully
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:26 am
Ky hills wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:41 pm
Bar23 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:44 pm
. If he was named “S A V Europe” you would probably buy his straws and have a different opinion.
I think that is an unfortunate and misguided statement. Lithuanian Farmer is always a very welcome and respected contributor on this forum. They merely stated critiques that had been heard there. They were believable critiques and not disrespectful. If you read their post it clearly states that they believe some would want to use the bull, and that they would be willing to if the price was lower. That does not sound like a total rejection of the bull to me. If everyone started buying cattle based on the name of the animal, I cant think that would be responsible approach to quality animal husbandry.
Things are getting heated on here, and I have to agree with you KY Hills on your statement above. I didn’t sense that LF was putting the bull down. I can imagine there are places in Europe where SAV America would look like a Hummer next to a Mini. I will say this, if European Angus breeders in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s had been able to see SAV America 8018, I think they would be stunned.

I personally don’t understand why a bull like America wouldn’t bring something to the table in Europe, but I do realize that Europe probably does not have the same cattle as we have here in the states.

As for Angus in other countries, I think this guy in Australia has some of the best looking Angus cattle I’ve ever seen. Oh and he likes big frame.

www.bit.ly/2Dw6dNT
I like his concept of breeding, very similar to mine, go and select your females, not by name alone but for what you are looking for, and get the bulls to match. Exactly what i am doing. Not using bulls just because so and so reckons its a good bull or it went for x amount of dollars or won ribbons. Yes they are good bulls but are they suited to your cows and your direction. Get out there and select to your own criteria, build a great herd and then slowly add what is lacking.

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:15 am
by Brookhill Angus
Redgully wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 am
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:26 am
Ky hills wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:41 pm

I like his concept of breeding, very similar to mine, go and select your females, not by name alone but for what you are looking for, and get the bulls to match. Exactly what i am doing. Not using bulls just because so and so reckons its a good bull or it went for x amount of dollars or won ribbons. Yes they are good bulls but are they suited to your cows and your direction. Get out there and select to your own criteria, build a great herd and then slowly add what is lacking.
I don’t breed solely on how much a bull costs: I happen to like the best SAV bulls, but they are not all I use.

I look for how I can improve weak areas in my herd and breed accordingly.

Two bulls that I use and really like outside of SAV are Connealy Capitalist and Baldridge Colonel. I’ve had excellent results from both.

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:25 am
by wbvs58
I think threads like this are very educational. It has drawn out peoples views on how they select animals, what they desire and look for and dug that bit deeper than what is just normally said. Yes there are differing views and a few bum fights but it has woken a lot up. Yes, it has put some to sleep as well, those that have very little interest in the seedstock industry, I haven't seen the likes of Fence comment too much but overall to me very interesting.

Ken

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:29 am
by TennesseeTuxedo
gcreekrch wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:11 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:14 pm
gcreekrch wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:16 pm
Mr. Brookhill Angus, you may have purebred cattle but your posts remind me of a cross between the singing frog and Foghorn Leghorn that once graced the Bugs Bunny hour.
Talk is cheap, results are the only thing that matters.
You said it, I didn't.

My results work well for me, I even use my own, home raised bulls. In 2017, I held the title of the highest priced feeder calves in North America for the months from June to late October. Would you refer to those as results?

I am very happy that the dollars are working for you, using all someone else's genetics. For myself, the almighty dollar isn't as important.
Where are those records kept?

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:38 am
by Bright Raven
A flaw running through this thread is the comparison of seedstock practices to commercial practices. How a seedstock producer selects sires to produce seedstock bulls is a totally different practice than how a commercial producer selects bulls.

The subject of the thread is SAV America 8018. The bull will influence seedstock producers and eventually commercial producers but the comparison of Gcreekranch's practices to Brookhill's practices is comparing apples and oranges.

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:45 am
by Redgully
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:15 am
Redgully wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 am
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:26 am


I like his concept of breeding, very similar to mine, go and select your females, not by name alone but for what you are looking for, and get the bulls to match. Exactly what i am doing. Not using bulls just because so and so reckons its a good bull or it went for x amount of dollars or won ribbons. Yes they are good bulls but are they suited to your cows and your direction. Get out there and select to your own criteria, build a great herd and then slowly add what is lacking.
I don’t breed solely on how much a bull costs: I happen to like the best SAV bulls, but they are not all I use.

I look for how I can improve weak areas in my herd and breed accordingly.

Two bulls that I use and really like outside of SAV are Connealy Capitalist and Baldridge Colonel. I’ve had excellent results from both.
I wasn't directing my reply at you, more at the general direction of the thread. I know you are doing things your way and it is working great for you, why would you change. As the old saying goes, if it aint broke don't fix it. But my situation is about trying to breed well balanced animals and pushing a few boundaries for fun as it is just a hobby for me. My main work is agriculture not cows. But cows is what i love doing.

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:11 am
by lithuanian farmer
Bar23 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:44 pm
lithuanian farmer wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:44 pm
The news have spread quite quickly already. Also saw how some people reacted to it. That's some mad money for sure. He might be perfect for American industry, but he's lacking for what market needs in Europe. Maybe some will order straws. I believe some will want to have some progeny from a world record bull. But he doesn't look too eye appealing for a commercial farmer. Short in height, too much of the belly and lack of meat in the rear. He sure has some extraordinary growth and I'd be tempted to try him out if he was available here for a smaller cost for a straw. One farmer has mentioned under this bull's sale video that he has some very similar looking angus heifers and he was told that market doesn't need such type animals...
. If he was named “S A V Europe” you would probably buy his straws and have a different opinion.
I don't care what name he has. And no, I wouldn't buy his straws for such price. Our operation is fully commercial, so using such straws would be way too expensive. 20 USD would be the highest I'd go for a crossbred cow. For a purebred it's another thing. But the thing is, very few would know SAV name and it'd mean nothing for most, so it would be way easier to sell animals sired by commonly popular bulls in that area/country. And again, the animal has to fit the local market requirements and fit the herd. There are some points I like about SAV America, but he's not the perfect bull for me at least.
We had one cow named America...

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:21 am
by Bright Raven
lithuanian farmer wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:11 am
Bar23 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:44 pm
lithuanian farmer wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:44 pm
The news have spread quite quickly already. Also saw how some people reacted to it. That's some mad money for sure. He might be perfect for American industry, but he's lacking for what market needs in Europe. Maybe some will order straws. I believe some will want to have some progeny from a world record bull. But he doesn't look too eye appealing for a commercial farmer. Short in height, too much of the belly and lack of meat in the rear. He sure has some extraordinary growth and I'd be tempted to try him out if he was available here for a smaller cost for a straw. One farmer has mentioned under this bull's sale video that he has some very similar looking angus heifers and he was told that market doesn't need such type animals...
. If he was named “S A V Europe” you would probably buy his straws and have a different opinion.
I don't care what name he has. And no, I wouldn't buy his straws for such price. Our operation is fully commercial, so using such straws would be way too expensive. 20 USD would be the highest I'd go for a crossbred cow. For a purebred it's another thing. But the thing is, very few would know SAV name and it'd mean nothing for most, so it would be way easier to sell animals sired by commonly popular bulls in that area/country. And again, the animal has to fit the local market requirements and fit the herd. There are some points I like about SAV America, but he's not the perfect bull for me at least.
We had one cow named America...
I cannot see how anyone selling commercial calves could justify semen higher than the average $20 to $30 dollars a straw considering the calf is going to a feeder lot.

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:35 am
by lithuanian farmer
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:21 am


I cannot see how anyone selling commercial calves could justify semen higher than the average $20 to $30 dollars a straw considering the calf is going to a feeder lot.
Our prices are up to ~$17. That's the perfect price for us and don't plan to go higher, except for a purebred animals if will need, but not much higher. Can find some very good bulls for a good price. Could use abit more expensive, but you'd need to be 100% sure that the bull will improve the calf in growth and shape and that calf will bring way more than from another bull. However, you can never be sure. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.
I know that at least earlier one country bought weanlings and payed more for a calf with better genetics, even if the calf was crossbred. Then it's worth to use a bit more expensive straws.

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 am
by Hunter
How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?

Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:31 am
by Silver
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:21 am

I cannot see how anyone selling commercial calves could justify semen higher than the average $20 to $30 dollars a straw considering the calf is going to a feeder lot.
A lot of us retain heifers. I would consider AI and over $30 if I though there was really something lacking in my females that I wanted to address quickly. Of course, that would only be if I couldn't source a walking bull that I thought would do the job.

I like to think a good bull to purchase should not cost more than the price of 5 good steer calves. Although it seems that good bull power has actually got cheaper as a ratio over the years.
So based on that formula $1,300 steer calves x5 = $6,500.
Bull used for 3 years x 25 calves a year = 75 calves
Works out to $86 per calf natural service.
Of course, the price paid for the bull and the length of time he sticks around changes the price per service quite quickly.
Most of my bulls the last few years have been between $3,500 and $5,000, so considering the quality I feel like I am getting a fair shake from my seedstock guys.

SAV America doesn't fit my program so I wouldn't be interested.