Best Terminal Breed

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

Stocker Steve
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Stocker Steve » Thu May 31, 2012 10:09 am

KNERSIE wrote:quote] With the added growth and muscle, expect extra BW too. Used on mature cows both charolais or limousin are great terminal sires.

Using the watered down version makes no sense to me, not only will you lose muscle, bone and growth, but also hybrid vigour in a crossbreeding system. I agree the continentals isn't for everyone's situation, but if you can make it work it will pay off!

Just as long as you don't keep some of those great looking heifers, they just don't make great commercial cows for the most part.


I bought some horned Herfords starting out and wish I had more. By far the best commerical cow value I have purchased. They have been making baldies till now. Both the BA x and the Limi X calves run a little large, and I was concerned about calving ease the first couple years, but 100# calves just fall out of these sloppy old girls.

Yes, I am tempted by the looks of the Limi X heifers. I purchased two Limi flex with Wulf bloodlines in the past. Both looked good. One was a poor milker and a herd quitter. She is gone. The other has 75 to 80# calves and does fine. My baldy heifers don't look quite as nice but I almost never cull one once they are yearlings.
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Cross breeder #1 » Thu May 31, 2012 11:18 am

Im just not interesed in limos, i have no source of them but i can get simm, GV, hereford, and definately angus i like the looks of some of them but i like simm beter and it sounds like simm has more growth and an advantage in heifers. Also ive already been chased 3/4 of a mile by a cow this year and i dont like them mean ones i will likjely sel her
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby agmantoo » Thu May 31, 2012 11:49 am

I have a farming background and I apply that to what I do regarding my cattle. There is something I do not understand regarding the cattle breeds promoted by many people posting their choices. I know for example that I cannot grow per acre the number of bushels of corn here as can be grown in say Illinois. Therefore I would fertilizer for what I can produce in a crop and still have a profit. I see the same thing with cattle. I just stated in another post that I do not supplement forages with grain. I know what I can produce here with my cattle and not add input costs that would increase my cost of production. With large frame cows and heavy milking cows that must eat more to maintain themselves and produce the calves being recommended how can you make a decent return per acre? Thanks
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby KNERSIE » Thu May 31, 2012 12:22 pm

agmantoo wrote:I have a farming background and I apply that to what I do regarding my cattle. There is something I do not understand regarding the cattle breeds promoted by many people posting their choices. I know for example that I cannot grow per acre the number of bushels of corn here as can be grown in say Illinois. Therefore I would fertilizer for what I can produce in a crop and still have a profit. I see the same thing with cattle. I just stated in another post that I do not supplement forages with grain. I know what I can produce here with my cattle and not add input costs that would increase my cost of production. With large frame cows and heavy milking cows that must eat more to maintain themselves and produce the calves being recommended how can you make a decent return per acre? Thanks


The crux lies with small efficient cows for your environment bred to a terminal bull and sell ALL of the offspring. The terminal calf won't be as fat as a less growthy calf out of your cows, but that is exactly what the buyers want, a big growthy green calf and they are usually prepared to pay a premium for that. Add to that the extra lbs weaned and I cannot see why you won't make a decent return per acre.

But in essence I agree, its not for everyone or for all situations, I don't even do it myself.
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Stocker Steve » Thu May 31, 2012 1:46 pm

agmantoo wrote:With large frame cows and heavy milking cows that must eat more to maintain themselves and produce the calves being recommended how can you make a decent return per acre? Thanks


Selling big shiny seed stock :cowboy:
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Massey135 » Thu May 31, 2012 2:51 pm

Red Bull Breeder wrote:Massey would like you to show me where you can find a double muscled limousin bull in the US. For the most part limousin do not carry the double muscle gene.
Cross breeder Its fairly easy to find a Fullblood Limousin with a low birth weight.

I said double muscle LOOK, Apple butt is the word HC and the ORDER BUYER I spoke with used. That excessive rump and high flank, noted of heavy continental influence -mainly limo and gelbvieh- will get you docked a dime every time. That look, where the rump is disproportionate, is associated with poor quality grades. You know this. Top selling calves around here will have very little curvature to their rump from the profile.
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Cross breeder #1 » Thu May 31, 2012 4:07 pm

Simmental7 wrote:Simmental... NLC Upgrade he's awesome

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 21&lang=EN
A 102 pound BW? thats alot but big black steers would be great
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Stocker Steve » Thu May 31, 2012 4:59 pm

Massey135 wrote:]
I said double muscle LOOK, Apple butt is the word HC and the ORDER BUYER I spoke with used. That excessive rump and high flank, noted of heavy continental influence -mainly limo and gelbvieh- will get you docked a dime every time. That look, where the rump is disproportionate, is associated with poor quality grades. You know this. Top selling calves around here will have very little curvature to their rump from the profile.


It can get you docked - - but not every time. Some folks love that apple butt look. You have to know your markets. Otherwise, yes, 1/4 continental is a safer sales barn sell than heavy continental. For you guys that sat in the front row during math but failed in marketing - - will you make more money on a 550# calf at $150@ or a 650# calf at $140?

I plan to sync and AI the entire herd in early August - - targeting 2 way wf cross replacements and 3 way 1/4 continental cross terminal depending on how much I like like the female - - then turn in a limi flex or balancer bull for clean up. I can not afford to raise a lot of replacements but I have a couple cow lines that I have grown to love so their heifers stay. Numbers are not everything.
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Massey135 » Thu May 31, 2012 5:51 pm

100lbs is a bit much for the comparison but I get your drift. With a crossbred like a balancer or Limflex, the resulting calves may be 1/4 cont by blood but without stabalized genetics your gonna get calves that show from 1/2 to no continental influence and everything in between. Work with stabalized genetics IN GENERAL and I guarantee you'll be much happier. For example, all purebred gelbviehs are 92% Gelb - 8% Angus. This is a stabalized composite regardless what the association terms them. Their assoc might even allow 88% to be considered purebred now.
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby VanC » Thu May 31, 2012 5:59 pm

Massey135 wrote:100lbs is a bit much for the comparison but I get your drift. With a crossbred like a balancer or Limflex, the resulting calves may be 1/4 cont by blood but without stabalized genetics your gonna get calves that show from 1/2 to no continental influence and everything in between. Work with stabalized genetics IN GENERAL and I guarantee you'll be much happier. For example, all purebred gelbviehs are 92% Gelb - 8% Angus. This is a stabalized composite regardless what the association terms them. Their assoc might even allow 88% to be considered purebred now.


I'm curious. Does the 8% have to be Angus, or can it be some other breed?
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby houstoncutter » Thu May 31, 2012 7:55 pm

Massey135 wrote:
Red Bull Breeder wrote:Massey would like you to show me where you can find a double muscled limousin bull in the US. For the most part limousin do not carry the double muscle gene.
Cross breeder Its fairly easy to find a Fullblood Limousin with a low birth weight.

I said double muscle LOOK, Apple butt is the word HC and the ORDER BUYER I spoke with used. That excessive rump and high flank, noted of heavy continental influence -mainly limo and gelbvieh- will get you docked a dime every time. That look, where the rump is disproportionate, is associated with poor quality grades. You know this. Top selling calves around here will have very little curvature to their rump from the profile.




Little slow tonight, but Massey, I ain't buying your assumptions. Limi's and Gelbvieh's showing more muscle expression than Charolis . If that's the case they must be growing some poor quality Chars in your part of Texas.
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Order buyers here will snap up a good muscled calf in a heart beat
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Massey135 » Thu May 31, 2012 8:04 pm

You're right, a lot of the Chars around here are more maternally oriented; a secondary effect of the Char assoc. pushing for lower bw and better quality grades. As a result, they are smoother made than a lot of the other continental breeds I see. It's the coarse muscled look, especially in the rump, that I'm seeing get docked.
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Massey135 » Thu May 31, 2012 8:10 pm

VanC wrote:
Massey135 wrote:100lbs is a bit much for the comparison but I get your drift. With a crossbred like a balancer or Limflex, the resulting calves may be 1/4 cont by blood but without stabalized genetics your gonna get calves that show from 1/2 to no continental influence and everything in between. Work with stabalized genetics IN GENERAL and I guarantee you'll be much happier. For example, all purebred gelbviehs are 92% Gelb - 8% Angus. This is a stabalized composite regardless what the association terms them. Their assoc might even allow 88% to be considered purebred now.


I'm curious. Does the 8% have to be Angus, or can it be some other breed?

You know, I'm not sure. I think so as most purebreds are black.

I ran across some fine looking fullblood gelbviehs in an old Gelbvieh World I have from maybe last June or July? Really liked the femininity in those cows. They didn't seem to be so course made like the growthier terminal type.
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Red Bull Breeder » Thu May 31, 2012 9:14 pm

Massey just a reading your post is almost as good as having TnMasterbaiter back on CT.
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Re: Best Terminal Breed

Postby Massey135 » Thu May 31, 2012 10:35 pm

I have no clue who that is. Neither do the 1000:1 viewers to posters. No one learns anything from your circular logic. Work on your approach. Bring facts to the table. Don't get your panties in a wad jus bc you happen to raise a breed in discussion... Even if its in a negative connotation. I was at the Durant, OK sale today. Of all the beef calves sold today, none brought less cwt than a set of 6, 545lb- what appeared to be purebred red limo- heifers. Take the FACTS for what theyre worth.
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