Another shot dead by Mpls police

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by farmguy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:20 pm

"Shoot to kill, always aim center mass, a wounded suspect is a talking suspect and may become a suing victim.
Nip it in the bud."

Butch I went back and looked at your posts. A pattern emerged. What have you against the police? They have a second to make a decision to the best of their knowledge. You have a year to make your nasty comments. We have a grand son who is a police officer and I related an incident. You jumped on me an inferred I was racist because I used two different terms for an African American, when I mentioned our African American relatives. That is simply a writing style to not repeat the same words. Just as a sports writer does not say team A beat team B, team C beat team D etc. As a veteran maybe I can understand better what it is to make a decision in a second with a weapon. Now you may retort with your caustic wit and your superior intellect. farmguy



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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by boondocks » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:51 pm

Farmguy, Butch doesn't need me to defend him. But I agree that we need to start holding LEO to a higher standard. They are getting (in many areas) way too militarized and way too trigger-happy. Not all of them! But instead of "policing themselves" and weeding out their own bad apples, they sure seem to close ranks and protect the bad cops. It's a downward spiral, in which poor policing leads citizenzy to respect them less; tensions rise between the police and the policed, so cops become more fearful for their lives; being more fearful, they get yet ever more SWAT-like and more trigger-happy, resulting in them killing people they should not; respect for LEO goes down further. Lather rinse repeat.
The good cops need to hold their colleagues accountable. I hope your grandson stays safe in a very tough job.(It must be worrying for his family, I'm sure). I hope that he is self-reflective and examines any inherent preconceptions or biases he has (as we all do) that may lead to unfortunate outcomes. And I hope that you encourage him to hold his fellow officers accountable. It should not be an "us versus them" mentality (on either side of the thin blue line).

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by Ryder » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:54 pm

slick4591 wrote:
greybeard wrote:I fully expect to be investigated and first and foremost, I'm going to tell the truth. I'm not lying to anyone, much less share that lie with a dispatcher just to save my old be nice just because it has shown to work for someone else..


Who said to lie? I figure you would have to be in fear of your life to pull a trigger on someone to start with. You should never lie as it kills your credibility.

Seems to me that the word "fear" is a legitimate euphemism for "very concerned".
Otherwise shooting would probably be an accident or murder.
Ryder

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by ChrisB » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:18 pm

I don't even want to guess on what percent of cops are "bad". But in the case of the officer involved in the shooting discussed in this thread, is he a bad cop? He made a split second decision that in hind sight was wrong, but does that make him a bad cop that his co-workers should throw under the bus? I don't know.

I'm guessing this cop will be found not guilty. People will cry that cops get away with murder, but from what I've read and seen on tv, I can see how things unfolded. Terrible tragedy for sure, but just one of those things.

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by True Grit Farms » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:19 pm

It's terrible that we as citizens and cops being cops that we as citizens end up dead. 44 cops were killed last year in gun related issues including suicide and accidents. But cops shot and killed 117 citizens last year. I think the cops are a little trigger happy myself, and are trained to be. Very few cops shoot only once.
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by Son of Butch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:12 pm

Son of Butch wrote:Grand jury decision today... Mohmad Noor will face charges of 3rd degree murder and 2nd degree manslaughter.
Said it took 8 months to bring charges because Police Union advised officers not to answer any questions during the
investigation and so they ended up calling 30 police officers to appear before the grand jury in this case.

Police Union said, Nah uh, we wouldn't do that.

Local criminal defense attorney said when prosecutor goes with 2 charges such as 3rd degree murder and 2nd degree manslaughter, it is usually a signal they want defendant to plea bargain guilty to manslaughter and not go to trial.

He has no dog in the fight, that is just his educated guess as to what will happen in this case.

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by TexasBred » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:39 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:It's terrible that we as citizens and cops being cops that we as citizens end up dead. 44 cops were killed last year in gun related issues including suicide and accidents. But cops shot and killed 117 citizens last year. I think the cops are a little trigger happy myself, and are trained to be. Very few cops shoot only once.

I thought everbody knew the 2nd shot was the warning shot or at least that's what a prison guard told me.
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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by boondocks » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:49 pm

ChrisB wrote:I don't even want to guess on what percent of cops are "bad". But in the case of the officer involved in the shooting discussed in this thread, is he a bad cop? He made a split second decision that in hind sight was wrong, but does that make him a bad cop that his co-workers should throw under the bus? I don't know.

I'm guessing this cop will be found not guilty. People will cry that cops get away with murder, but from what I've read and seen on tv, I can see how things unfolded. Terrible tragedy for sure, but just one of those things.


Here's some cops that I sure hope we can all agree need the TG treatment (or at least locked up for a good long time):
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xvz ... eals-vgtrn
Wow. Just when I thought I couldn't get more cynical....

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by Son of Butch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:57 pm

Even minimum gun training teaches to always identify your target before pulling the trigger.

Noor apparently spooked by a noise to the point of fearing for his life, drew and fired his gun across his partner in the
car, killing the woman at the driver's window holding the cell phone she had used to call them 13 minutes earlier.

The fact that his partner never drew his gun and was startled by the shot shows Noor unfit to be an officer.
I can't imagine anything more reckless than firing a gun in the dark of night across your partner on a hunch or based on an unfounded fear.

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by bball » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Son of Butch wrote:Shoot to kill, always aim center mass, a wounded suspect is a talking suspect and may become a suing victim.
Nip it in the bud.


This is almost 100% accurate.
We were taught never to say, "shoot to kill". Don't even get in the habit. The correct phraseology when testifying is, "shoot to stop."
2 shots center mass.
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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by ChrisB » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:33 pm

Son of Butch wrote:Even minimum gun training teaches to always identify your target before pulling the trigger.

Noor apparently spooked by a noise to the point of fearing for his life, drew and fired his gun across his partner in the
car, killing the woman at the driver's window holding the cell phone she had used to call them 13 minutes earlier.

The fact that his partner never drew his gun and was startled by the shot shows Noor unfit to be an officer.
I can't imagine anything more reckless than firing a gun in the dark of night across your partner on a hunch or based on an unfounded fear.


I'm pretty sure the other officer stated he was in the process of pulling his gun out of his holster when Noor shot. But I also seem to remember hearing he was startled by the shot so who knows.

Try to look at how things unfolded from another perspective. A few stories around the country of cops getting shot by being lured to specific locations by someone claiming to need assistance. Two young and inexperienced cops who are probably a bit more nervous than veteran officers would be. They pull up to the location looking for a suspect or victim or an assault in progress. Windows are down to hear better. They hear a loud bang and 911 dispatcher suggests it could be from fireworks in the area. (Others have suggested in was actually the sound of Ms. Diamond hitting the back of the car to get the officers attention.) All of a sudden someone is standing by the drivers side window holding something in their hand"

In hindsight we all know it was a cell phone, it was held by an Australian woman wearing pajamas. But at the time the officers know none of that, just someone appears out of nowhere holding something that could be a gun in their hand. Initial reports that they were talking to her have been redacted. How much time does officer Noor really have if he is under the belief it is a gun? Did he make a mistake? Absolutely. Should he lose his job? Probably. Should he go to prison for making the wrong choice in what he thought was a split second decision? That's were I have a problem. But maybe he was a bad cop who was evil and started his shift that night hoping he would have a chance to shoot someone.

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by True Grit Farms » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:48 pm

ChrisB wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:Even minimum gun training teaches to always identify your target before pulling the trigger.

Noor apparently spooked by a noise to the point of fearing for his life, drew and fired his gun across his partner in the
car, killing the woman at the driver's window holding the cell phone she had used to call them 13 minutes earlier.

The fact that his partner never drew his gun and was startled by the shot shows Noor unfit to be an officer.
I can't imagine anything more reckless than firing a gun in the dark of night across your partner on a hunch or based on an unfounded fear.


I'm pretty sure the other officer stated he was in the process of pulling his gun out of his holster when Noor shot. But I also seem to remember hearing he was startled by the shot so who knows.

Try to look at how things unfolded from another perspective. A few stories around the country of cops getting shot by being lured to specific locations by someone claiming to need assistance. Two young and inexperienced cops who are probably a bit more nervous than veteran officers would be. They pull up to the location looking for a suspect or victim or an assault in progress. Windows are down to hear better. They hear a loud bang and 911 dispatcher suggests it could be from fireworks in the area. (Others have suggested in was actually the sound of Ms. Diamond hitting the back of the car to get the officers attention.) All of a sudden someone is standing by the drivers side window holding something in their hand"

In hindsight we all know it was a cell phone, it was held by an Australian woman wearing pajamas. But at the time the officers know none of that, just someone appears out of nowhere holding something that could be a gun in their hand. Initial reports that they were talking to her have been redacted. How much time does officer Noor really have if he is under the belief it is a gun? Did he make a mistake? Absolutely. Should he lose his job? Probably. Should he go to prison for making the wrong choice in what he thought was a split second decision? That's were I have a problem. But maybe he was a bad cop who was evil and started his shift that night hoping he would have a chance to shoot someone.


I'm all for the cops having a hard job, but they shouldn't be treated any different than a citizen. Fact is if she wanted to kill the cops they'd of been dead, instead she's dead because of some incompetent trigger happy cop. If the same thing happened to me I'd be in jail, probably forever.
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by Son of Butch » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:56 pm

ChrisB wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:Even minimum gun training teaches to always identify your target before pulling the trigger.

Should he go to prison for making the wrong choice in what he thought was a split second decision?
That's were I have a problem. But maybe he was a bad cop who was evil and started his shift that night
hoping he would have a chance to shoot someone.

Nobody has said anything about police officer Muhamed Noor, a Somali immigrant, being evil.

2nd degree manslaughter, unintentional negligence or action resulting in death which was reasonably foreseeable.
In Minnesota punishable by up to 10 years in prison and up to $20,000 fine.

11:27 pm first call to 911 by Justine Damond
11:35 on phone with 911 dispatcher 2nd time to insure correct address and informed police would arrive shortly.
11:41 the officers enter alley with their headlights OFF
11:42 radio report of 1 person down
11:51 Justine Damond pronounced dead.

To me it's grossly negligent for an officer to fire across his partner into the dark due to hearing unidentified noise.
Had the car window been up instead of down would he have still shot?
Should police officers automatically be absolved of any negligence in their actions?
Are they above the law, or should they be subject to a trial the same as any other citizen?

Previously 3 complaints had been filed against officer Noor, 1 settled 2 open and these police records are sealed.

Not only did he not identify the noise before firing (or since) he did not reasonably identify his target before firing.

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by hurleyjd » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:04 am

Looks as if the Sacramento CA police's version does not match the autopsy report.

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Re: Another shot dead by Mpls police

Post by Son of Butch » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:46 pm

Update:
Muhamed Noor's attorneys had petitioned the court to drop all charges due to lack of probable cause.
Judge ruled against them today and set April 1st 2019 as the date for the trial to begin.
Nearly 21 months after her death.

Justice is sooo slooow.

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