Descending 2nd

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HDRider
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Descending 2nd

Postby HDRider » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:26 am

I read a lot of news and commentary.

By any measure, there is more discussion about a complete rewrite of the 2nd amendment, to the point we will look like Canada or Australia.

You might think it will not happen. It could, maybe not this time, but next time. We are not the same country we were 50 years ago.

I'd also say the folks here on CT are not the typical citizen. Our beliefs are not the beliefs of the majority.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby Craig Miller » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:24 am

It will happen. Problem in my mind is that if one original amendment is rewritten or dropped it will set precedence for the rest to fall with it. That's why they attack the 2nd so hard. It would have the most support to drop it first
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby Ouachita » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:32 am

Craig Miller wrote:It will happen. Problem in my mind is that if one original amendment is rewritten or dropped it will set precedence for the rest to fall with it. That's why they attack the 2nd so hard. It would have the most support to drop it first

And then less resistance to "drop" the rest
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:47 am

I hope and pray your not right HD. I think we need harsh swift penalties for crimes committed using guns. How many people did a couple jets kill on 9/11/01. I'm shocked more killings aren't committed using vehicles myself, the Kansas city bombing was impressive.
I'd give my AR 15's up if I thought it would prevent another tragedy and keep innocent people from getting killed. The more I think about these kids shooting schools up the more I feel that the gun violence videos need to be banned.
IF LAW ENFORCEMENT WOULD OF DONE THEIR JOB THESE KILLINGS COULD OF BEEN PREVENTED.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:51 am

Depending on how long our nation survives, it is rational to expect changes to the constitution pursuant to Article V of the constitution. The process set forth in Article V is rigorous but it has happened before so it can happen again:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:00 am

Craig Miller wrote:It will happen. Problem in my mind is that if one original amendment is rewritten or dropped it will set precedence for the rest to fall with it. That's why they attack the 2nd so hard. It would have the most support to drop it first


Craig, in the past 200 years, the Constitution has been amended 27 times. The Constitution recognized the need for change by providing a process for change in Article V. The precedence for change came in Article V.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby callmefence » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:07 am

Hopefully they do rewrite the second.
To where every able minded adult is required by law to be capable of defending themselves and others at all times.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby Craig Miller » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:10 am

Bright Raven wrote:
Craig Miller wrote:It will happen. Problem in my mind is that if one original amendment is rewritten or dropped it will set precedence for the rest to fall with it. That's why they attack the 2nd so hard. It would have the most support to drop it first


Craig, in the past 200 years, the Constitution has been amended 27 times. The Constitution recognized the need for change by providing a process for change in Article V. The precedence for change came in Article V.

I realize that Ron. I'm talking about dropping one of the original 12 though and in my mind that is completely diffrent. Those are part of the original basis of our country.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby HDRider » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:17 am

callmefence wrote:Hopefully they do rewrite the second.
To where every able minded adult is required by law to be capable of defending themselves and others at all times.

I really don't think that is the direction we are heading.

Wishful thinking and fanciful thought will nor preserve the 2nd.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:17 am

The Federal Register, National Achives has already addressed the repeal of the Second Amendment. The Federal Register is a a daily publication of The United States of America where all proposed and final rules are published daily. The Achives hold every published document going back to the first rules out nation promulgated. Here is an excerpt from their website addressing the process for repealing the 2nd Amendment:

Can the US congress overturn the Second Amendment which protects the right of Americans to bear arms?

As part of a national process, yes. Independently and unilaterally, no. Through simple legislation, no.

The Second Amendment is a constitutional inclusion and recognition of a right that the US Supreme Court ruled pre-dates the Constitution (the case the gun control crowd intentionally and incompletely misquotes, United States v. Cruikshank, 1876*). As such, the right to arms is recognized as an inherent, innate right. As a part of the Constitution, for the Congress to unrecognize that right, the Second Amendment would have to be repealed. No simple legislation can do this. Congress writes laws based on the outlines and limitations in the Constitution, but cannot rewrite the Constitution itself except by a difficult process found in Article V of the Constitution:....
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby HDRider » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:18 am

Helping Mr. Raven

What would be the step to repeal the 2nd?
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby callmefence » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:25 am

HDRider wrote:
callmefence wrote:Hopefully they do rewrite the second.
To where every able minded adult is required by law to be capable of defending themselves and others at all times.

I really don't think that is the direction we are heading.

Wishful thinking and fanciful thought will nor preserve the 2nd.


Might do more than be nice and moaning..
gun rights have actually increased considerably in our lives.
Remember when it was illegal to carry a handgun. Remember mag restrictions.
And statistics show it works to arm the people. Common sense says we need to eliminate soft targets.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:26 am

HDRider wrote:Helping Mr. Raven

What would be the step to repeal the 2nd?


A motion would be made in the Congress or the states would form a constitutional Congress to petition for a change. Then it would have to go through the Article V process outlined above.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby Craig Miller » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:30 am

2/3rds of both houses agree to it. Then they would have to get the supreme court to agree with them. Or 2/3rds of the state's in a convention and I think the supreme court would also have to approve that.
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Re: Descending 2nd

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:33 am

Craig Miller wrote:2/3rds of both houses agree to it. Then they would have to get the supreme court to agree with them. Or 2/3rds of the state's in a convention and I think the supreme court would also have to approve that.


Article V does not state that the Supreme Court approves it. However, any change to the constitution could be appealed to the Supreme Court for review. By a State or individual.
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