I bought a few acres

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Bright Raven
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Bright Raven » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:03 am

Stocker Steve wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
Hunter wrote:Sounds like you paid fair, if not higher, market value and your brother is fine with it than I don't see any issues.
Boondocks brought up an interesting situation. A long term care facility may be able to get to certain assets.


There is a way around that. The attorney who set ours up protected the farm from being sold to obtain the assets.


By setting up ?


Sorry, my sister did all of the administration of the assets. I never even ask. This is all I know.

This was 25 years ago. Laws may have changed. The farm was 'gifted' to the children in portions. There was at the time an amount that could be gifted on an annual basis without certain consequences. The trust also made the assets not under the control of my parents so a nursing home could not take their assets.

Mom and dad both went into a nursing home about a week apart. Mom was 90 dad was 91. They signed their SS over. Dad died at 92, mom was 93.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby J&D Cattle » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:34 am

Bigfoot wrote:
boondocks wrote:The financial whiz-kids may well say differently but my only caveat would be for your folks to still go ahead and talk to an estate-planning expert (good luck, right?). I guess if they both have a life estate maybe they don't care about losing their homestead exemption (?), but I'd still want to make sure sufficient assets were preserved for Parent A if, say, Parent B needed lengthy medical care, nursing home etc (since they have likely lost (correct me if I'm wrong, CT-finance-folks) the ability to shield a certain amount of assets via their home ownership. Just a thought. Otherwise, I think you have done everything you could do under the circumstances. Congratulations!


They will not lift one finger, nor entertain the thought of any type of financial planning.


My parents had entertained the idea of financial planning and we had even talked about it but they never would take action. I asked my father if he was happy with the attorney Grandpa had used. When he said yes I picked up the phone and called him and made them an appointment. Told Mom to gather her stuff up and to please be there. Grandpa's estate went so smooth they both felt a level of comfort but they still needed a push. Once they got to talking about it my Aunt and Uncle who have no kids even went and got their stuff in order.

Bigfoot, have you and your wife started your planning? My family has and did shortly after we had first born.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Bigfoot » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:02 am

J&D Cattle wrote:
Bigfoot wrote:
boondocks wrote:The financial whiz-kids may well say differently but my only caveat would be for your folks to still go ahead and talk to an estate-planning expert (good luck, right?). I guess if they both have a life estate maybe they don't care about losing their homestead exemption (?), but I'd still want to make sure sufficient assets were preserved for Parent A if, say, Parent B needed lengthy medical care, nursing home etc (since they have likely lost (correct me if I'm wrong, CT-finance-folks) the ability to shield a certain amount of assets via their home ownership. Just a thought. Otherwise, I think you have done everything you could do under the circumstances. Congratulations!


They will not lift one finger, nor entertain the thought of any type of financial planning.


My parents had entertained the idea of financial planning and we had even talked about it but they never would take action. I asked my father if he was happy with the attorney Grandpa had used. When he said yes I picked up the phone and called him and made them an appointment. Told Mom to gather her stuff up and to please be there. Grandpa's estate went so smooth they both felt a level of comfort but they still needed a push. Once they got to talking about it my Aunt and Uncle who have no kids even went and got their stuff in order.

Bigfoot, have you and your wife started your planning? My family has and did shortly after we had first born.


Have a will of course. Have made no attempt to transfer assets, because of their age.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby boondocks » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:25 pm

Bigfoot, it sounds like you have complex feelings about this. That's okay, and to be expected. Some of what you're feeling will even contradict other things that you may also be feeling or thinking. That's ok too. It's understandable to admire and care about your folks and (if I'm reading between the lines correctly) also be a bit frustrated at their stubbornness ;)
I had one set of grandparents that were breathtakingly pragmatic (even seemingly "cold") about financial and end-of-life planning, and the other set whose plan was apparently to just live forever. Saw both extremes, hope to find a middle route for myself lol.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Bestoutwest » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:30 pm

Bigfoot wrote:Here will come the fall out. I started this thread, in hopes of a little therapy. If that comes in the form of tough love, then I will have to take it.

I used awkward in my original post. It does feel awkward, so I can't say that was a lie. I do have a bitter feeling as well. I'm not even sure if that captures how I feel. Their nice people, that lived on optimism. They reached a point, where the light at the end of the optimism tunnel, just became so small, that another plan had to be hatched.

In the end, I would have to admit, that I am happier owning the place, than I would be by not owning it. I do have a tremendous amount of guilt, because of my bitter feelings. There are probably better avenues, to seek council. I just thought, maybe someone here had some insight, that a nonfarm person would not.


What is there to feel guilty about? Your brother could have done the same thing to you. Your parents could have put something away and sought out the services of a person that was more knowledgeable than they are and they would, hopefully, be in a better place financially. Could it be that part of your feelings are motivated by the fact that your parents are aging and roles have reversed?

I worry about my folks a lot, too. My dad is as cheap as they come b/c my mother spends it all. We have determined that there is some MH issues associated with her shopping that borders on addiction, but it doesn't excuse the fact that their rainy day fund may have gone from a lake to a pond rather quickly.

BF, from what I've read on here, you're a good man. You try to do the best by your family. You try to live your Christian faith. This falls into that category.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby backhoeboogie » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:34 pm

Big Foot you made the right move.

One of my sisters wanted to partner up with me in buying my parents place. She and my wife (now Ex) did not get along and it seemed like a train wreck to me. So I opted out. Told her to buy it on her own. She didn't want to but didn't want me to buy it on my own. I didn't fight about it. I've regretted it for years now. That's one thing you will not experience. God Bless you. You did the right thing.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby mwj » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:07 pm

Bigfoot as long as you or your spouse did not feel that you were pressured into buying it you should rest well. If we make an informed decision on our own we should never look back. It will make you old before your time if you second guess what is already done. The best of luck to you and I hope all this goes better than you wanted it to!!
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Hook2.0 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:48 pm

I recently had to do something similar with my mil on a smaller scale, with the idea of making sure she was protected in her growing age because she sure wasn’t doing it herself. Now it looks like I may do the same with my wife’s dad up in ny to make sure they are taken care of. It’s what we do for family. One thing though, have you discussed with your brother what if anything will be done with any of your parents remaining assets when they pass? That can still get sticky with your brother if you get half Of what you “paid in” essentially getting the property at roughly 55% of value using your figures. Assuming that there are any assets left of course.
Just a thought
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Bigfoot » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:53 pm

Hook2.0 wrote:I recently had to do something similar with my mil on a smaller scale, with the idea of making sure she was protected in her growing age because she sure wasn’t doing it herself. Now it looks like I may do the same with my wife’s dad up in ny to make sure they are taken care of. It’s what we do for family. One thing though, have you discussed with your brother what if anything will be done with any of your parents remaining assets when they pass? That can still get sticky with your brother if you get half Of what you “paid in” essentially getting the property at roughly 55% of value using your figures. Assuming that there are any assets left of course.
Just a thought


Number 1. It's awesome your posting again.
Number 2. I didn't follow anything you said there. Sorry.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Hook2.0 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:11 pm

Let me try this again, I’m not very good with typing out what’s in my head:
If your parents pass with any $ or assets left, if you get half of what you paid them it may upset your brother. You would essentially be buying the property at half what you paid them because yo7 get it back when they pass.
I had to make certain stipulations with my mother in law (mil) to avoid this issue with my wife’s brother
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Bigfoot » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:06 pm

Hook2.0 wrote:Let me try this again, I’m not very good with typing out what’s in my head:
If your parents pass with any $ or assets left, if you get half of what you paid them it may upset your brother. You would essentially be buying the property at half what you paid them because yo7 get it back when they pass.
I had to make certain stipulations with my mother in law (mil) to avoid this issue with my wife’s brother


That thought never even crossed my mind, but your right.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:33 pm

Bigfoot wrote:
Hook2.0 wrote:Let me try this again, I’m not very good with typing out what’s in my head:
If your parents pass with any $ or assets left, if you get half of what you paid them it may upset your brother. You would essentially be buying the property at half what you paid them because yo7 get it back when they pass.
I had to make certain stipulations with my mother in law (mil) to avoid this issue with my wife’s brother


That thought never even crossed my mind, but your right.


If they are anything like my folks, they'll "blow" it on rope horses and NRS gift cards for your kids.......even if you say no way.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Rafter S » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:10 am

Bigfoot wrote:
Hook2.0 wrote:Let me try this again, I’m not very good with typing out what’s in my head:
If your parents pass with any $ or assets left, if you get half of what you paid them it may upset your brother. You would essentially be buying the property at half what you paid them because yo7 get it back when they pass.
I had to make certain stipulations with my mother in law (mil) to avoid this issue with my wife’s brother


That thought never even crossed my mind, but your right.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding here, but why shouldn't you get half the money back (or at least half of whatever they haven't spent). Even if you are basically getting the place for half of it's value, isn't your brother getting half the money you paid for it in the first place?

As far as if your folks have to go into a nursing home, I'm not an attorney, but since you paid them what the place is worth I think you'll be okay. It's when parents give assets to their children that they can go back and undo the deal, not when they sell for a fair price.

Speaking of hiding assets, this may ruffle some feathers, but it always amazes me the number of people that think it's perfectly okay to hide assets to avoid paying for nursing home care, but complain about "welfare fraud". Hiding assets and expecting taxpayers to bear the burden for nursing home care is just another form of it.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Bigfoot » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:09 am

Rafter S wrote:
Bigfoot wrote:
Hook2.0 wrote:Let me try this again, I’m not very good with typing out what’s in my head:
If your parents pass with any $ or assets left, if you get half of what you paid them it may upset your brother. You would essentially be buying the property at half what you paid them because yo7 get it back when they pass.
I had to make certain stipulations with my mother in law (mil) to avoid this issue with my wife’s brother


That thought never even crossed my mind, but your right.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding here, but why shouldn't you get half the money back (or at least half of whatever they haven't spent). Even if you are basically getting the place for half of it's value, isn't your brother getting half the money you paid for it in the first place?

As far as if your folks have to go into a nursing home, I'm not an attorney, but since you paid them what the place is worth I think you'll be okay. It's when parents give assets to their children that they can go back and undo the deal, not when they sell for a fair price.

Speaking of hiding assets, this may ruffle some feathers, but it always amazes me the number of people that think it's perfectly okay to hide assets to avoid paying for nursing home care, but complain about "welfare fraud". Hiding assets and expecting taxpayers to bear the burden for nursing home care is just another form of it.


I don't think my brother would have a thought process like that, but I can see how if somebody wanted to be petty, they could get their feathers ruffled.

I could see someone thinking well.......If you hadn't bought them out, I would have half of property, worth X amount. Now that you paid them X amount X number of years ago, and they spent half or 2/3 or whatever, now I'm setting here with a much smaller amount, and you have a property and the same amount of cash, that I got.

Again, I don't see my brother entertaining thoughts like that. I can see how a person could.

The idea was tossed, that they would finance it. Upon their death, I would pay half the payment to my brother. I passed on that fast. Biggest reason, I don't want to owe anybody. Especially family.
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Re: I bought a few acres

Postby Bestoutwest » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:50 am

Bigfoot wrote:
Hook2.0 wrote:Let me try this again, I’m not very good with typing out what’s in my head:
If your parents pass with any $ or assets left, if you get half of what you paid them it may upset your brother. You would essentially be buying the property at half what you paid them because yo7 get it back when they pass.
I had to make certain stipulations with my mother in law (mil) to avoid this issue with my wife’s brother


That thought never even crossed my mind, but your right.


He// hath no fury like a family fighting over the estates of the dead. It's broken my mother's family up. We'll never go back to that town, and it kills me.
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