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Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:10 pm
by ddd75
socialism is not the answer.

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:43 pm
by Bestoutwest
hurleyjd wrote:"This thread is meant to be nonpolitical and is not intended to be left wing or right wing because no matter what wing you identify we are all attached to the same bird and the bird is what's important. Just offering some food for thought." Quote from Jo's original post that started this discussion.

What happens if one wing of the bird is weaker than the other. The bird should fly in circles never getting anywhere. So are we needing a strong wing on each side of the bird to make any progress. Who tries to pull the wing feathers from the bird. The ones that want the bird to fly in their direction. So pretty soon the bird has no feathers at all in its wings and cannot fly at all. This is where we are now in our nation. My mother always had a flock of chickens there would be one that would fly over the fence. She would catch it and pull the feathers from one wing to keep it in the hen yard. Time to let bygones be bygones and let the feathers grow back so America can advance to greater glory. There seems to be no national goal most of us can get behind why is that, in my case I would ask the question what is the goal. I will also add a saying from my Grandmother, " Wherever the bird shall flyth the tail shall follow."


The problem is, though, that no one makes money. Career politicians lose their gig. Pundits can't constantly talk, and rehash. The media companies have no fodder. The "news" organizations have nothing. If all of this ends, the economy of commercialized anger and fear of the other side goes away.

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:54 pm
by bball
Bestoutwest wrote:
hurleyjd wrote:"This thread is meant to be nonpolitical and is not intended to be left wing or right wing because no matter what wing you identify we are all attached to the same bird and the bird is what's important. Just offering some food for thought." Quote from Jo's original post that started this discussion.

What happens if one wing of the bird is weaker than the other. The bird should fly in circles never getting anywhere. So are we needing a strong wing on each side of the bird to make any progress. Who tries to pull the wing feathers from the bird. The ones that want the bird to fly in their direction. So pretty soon the bird has no feathers at all in its wings and cannot fly at all. This is where we are now in our nation. My mother always had a flock of chickens there would be one that would fly over the fence. She would catch it and pull the feathers from one wing to keep it in the hen yard. Time to let bygones be bygones and let the feathers grow back so America can advance to greater glory. There seems to be no national goal most of us can get behind why is that, in my case I would ask the question what is the goal. I will also add a saying from my Grandmother, " Wherever the bird shall flyth the tail shall follow."


The problem is, though, that no one makes money. Career politicians lose their gig. Pundits can't constantly talk, and rehash. The media companies have no fodder. The "news" organizations have nothing. If all of this ends, the economy of commercialized anger and fear of the other side goes away.


:clap: best post on this site in a long time! :clap:

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:51 pm
by haase
Good post, I believe that I don't need to wake up tomorrow and spew my beliefs to anyone, my business, I deal with alot of different people and beliefs, I don't make mine known, does that make me close minded, I don't think so, just secure, because a insecure person always has to be heard and also get the last word in, because you're own actions do affect your tomorrow, we live in a country that does give you choice, doesn't mean that everyone is going to agree, and if you cant handle it then leave.

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:57 pm
by Son of Butch
hurleyjd wrote:Time to let bygones be bygones.... so America can advance to greater glory.
There seems to be no national goal..........
I would ask the question what is the goal (?)

My guess would be WWII is the last time the nation has had a united national goal.

IMO we should have had the goal of paying down the national deficit, but we missed that opportunity to get it
under control during the 20 year period of the 80s - 90s Instead we continue to pile it up so high it has now become
an unobtainable goal and are past the point of no return (without bankruptcy)

Should there be a national goal?

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 am
by Bestoutwest
Son of Butch wrote:
hurleyjd wrote:Time to let bygones be bygones.... so America can advance to greater glory.
There seems to be no national goal..........
I would ask the question what is the goal (?)

My guess would be WWII is the last time the nation has had a united national goal.

IMO we should have had the goal of paying down the national deficit, but we missed that opportunity to get it
under control during the 20 year period of the 80s - 90s Instead we continue to pile it up so high it has now become
an unobtainable goal and are past the point of no return (without bankruptcy)

Should there be a national goal?


YES!!!
It should include creating the best educational system in the world, creating a healthcare system that is affordable and accessible, and fixing immigration in a way that actually deals with the people that are here and NOT spending billions to build a wall that will become porous b/c humans are massively intelligent and creative creatures when the need arises. So, how do we do this?
Education: Stop dumping money on useless technology such as personal computers for every child. Does every child need one? In my experiences, no. A computer lab will work. We need to bring back functional education. Cooking, money matters, preparing students for industries that utilize physical talents and not intellectual abilities (let's be honest, not everyone is going to be a doctor, but conversely, not everyone has the skill to be a master welder). Stop encouraging ALL kids to go to traditional 4-year colleges resulting in endless debt and useless degrees.
Health Care: reign in the insurance industry. I know that in my state it's illegal to lower the price for individuals yet it's legal for insurance companies to pay as little as 50% for the same services. Put caps on profit margins for medical supplies (no need for $8 bandages-personal experience). Allow ER's to turn people away for colds and lice. Create clinics in rural areas with the equipment to handle a wide range of issues (such as x-ray and lab facilities) and staff as such (easier than you might imagine).
Immigration: Allow people a path through citizenship through community projects or military service. We have a lot of roads, bridges, sewers, etc that need a lot of work. Free labor for citizenship? Might work. Encourage Americans to seek employment in jobs traditionally held by immigrants. Remove protection for hiring immigrant workers such as lowered minimum wages for farm workers.

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:47 am
by True Grit Farms
An illegal immigrant is a criminal and needs to be treated as such. For all those families that came here the right way it's a slap in the face. Deport all illegals and pick and choose the one's we let back. Building the wall is a good way to keep people out of the country. Walls can keep prisoners in prisons, and can keep illegals out. I still think the quickest and eaisest way to stop illegals from entering this country is to treat them like we treat suspected terrorists in other countries.

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:53 am
by Bright Raven
True Grit Farms wrote:An illegal immigrant is a criminal and needs to be treated as such. For all those families that came here the right way it's a slap in the face. Deport all illegals and pick and choose the one's we let back. Building the wall is a good way to keep people out of the country. Walls can keep prisoners in prisons, and can keep illegals out. I still think the quickest and eaisest way to stop illegals from entering this country is to treat them like we treat suspected terrorists in other countries.


You would like the SICARIO movies.

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:57 am
by hurleyjd
Son of Butch wrote:
hurleyjd wrote:Time to let bygones be bygones.... so America can advance to greater glory.
There seems to be no national goal..........
I would ask the question what is the goal (?)

My guess would be WWII is the last time the nation has had a united national goal.

IMO we should have had the goal of paying down the national deficit, but we missed that opportunity to get it
under control during the 20 year period of the 80s - 90s Instead we continue to pile it up so high it has now become
an unobtainable goal and are past the point of no return (without bankruptcy)

Should there be a national goal?


When was the last time that the national debt was below 1 trillion. The deficit that you refer to is something different than the debt. The deficit is the difference that we take in to keep the USA running. when tax cuts are given then it affects the cash flow and if the cash flow does not meet the needs then you have to barrow to make up the difference. It takes a lot to keep America humming as the population increases. The military is another place that has a lot of mismanagement I know I worked at a place that we knew if we got the bid then we could keep adding things on to get more money. Since Ronald Reagan the debt has gone up and up and up. The world countries are all spending to maintain a military that can take on the United States Of America

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:38 pm
by Son of Butch
yes - I misspoke and meant debt not deficit (forgive me I'm old :( )

When Eisenhower left office the national debt was 289 billion
(Eisenhower was last to pay down any debt and happened in 2 yrs of his last term with no re-election to consider)
When Gerald Ford left it was 699 billion.
The last time the national debt was under 1 trillion was when James Earl Carter left office it was 998 billion.
When Reagan left it was 2.78 trillion.
Bush 4.4 trillion
Clinton 5.8 trillion (90's economy was humming along, but instead of paying down debt we added to it.)
Bush 11.66 trillion
At end of Obama's first term it 16.7 and when Obama left office the national debt was 20.25 trillion

It was reported this past winter that American credit card debt is now over 1 trillion dollars.

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:26 pm
by hurleyjd
Son of Butch wrote:yes - I misspoke and meant debt not deficit (forgive me I'm old :( )

When Eisenhower left office the national debt was 289 billion
(Eisenhower was last to pay down any debt and happened in 2 yrs of his last term with no re-election to consider)
When Gerald Ford left it was 699 billion.
The last time the national debt was under 1 trillion was when James Earl Carter left office it was 998 billion.
When Reagan left it was 2.78 trillion.
Bush 4.4 trillion
Clinton 5.8 trillion (90's economy was humming along, but instead of paying down debt we added to it.)
Bush 11.66 trillion
At end of Obama's first term it 16.7 and when Obama left office the national debt was 20.25 trillion


It was reported this past winter that American credit card debt is now over 1 trillion dollars.


Ike also had the wwII debt to contend with and also the rebuilding of the world destroyed by the war. Warned us about the association of business and the military and no one listened. As long as everyone had jobs no matter who supported thier wages then all is well.
Wonder about he age of posters on here: I will be 78 1/4/19

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:47 pm
by bball
Bestoutwest wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:
hurleyjd wrote:Time to let bygones be bygones.... so America can advance to greater glory.
There seems to be no national goal..........
I would ask the question what is the goal (?)

My guess would be WWII is the last time the nation has had a united national goal.

IMO we should have had the goal of paying down the national deficit, but we missed that opportunity to get it
under control during the 20 year period of the 80s - 90s Instead we continue to pile it up so high it has now become
an unobtainable goal and are past the point of no return (without bankruptcy)

Should there be a national goal?


YES!!!
It should include creating the best educational system in the world, creating a healthcare system that is affordable and accessible, and fixing immigration in a way that actually deals with the people that are here and NOT spending billions to build a wall that will become porous b/c humans are massively intelligent and creative creatures when the need arises. So, how do we do this?
Education: Stop dumping money on useless technology such as personal computers for every child. Does every child need one? In my experiences, no. A computer lab will work. We need to bring back functional education. Cooking, money matters, preparing students for industries that utilize physical talents and not intellectual abilities (let's be honest, not everyone is going to be a doctor, but conversely, not everyone has the skill to be a master welder). Stop encouraging ALL kids to go to traditional 4-year colleges resulting in endless debt and useless degrees.
Health Care: reign in the insurance industry. I know that in my state it's illegal to lower the price for individuals yet it's legal for insurance companies to pay as little as 50% for the same services. Put caps on profit margins for medical supplies (no need for $8 bandages-personal experience). Allow ER's to turn people away for colds and lice. Create clinics in rural areas with the equipment to handle a wide range of issues (such as x-ray and lab facilities) and staff as such (easier than you might imagine).
Immigration: Allow people a path through citizenship through community projects or military service. We have a lot of roads, bridges, sewers, etc that need a lot of work. Free labor for citizenship? Might work. Encourage Americans to seek employment in jobs traditionally held by immigrants. Remove protection for hiring immigrant workers such as lowered minimum wages for farm workers.



D√ómn Best! You are on a roll here lately! Another great post!
I agree with the vast majority of what you posted. I do believe a barrier of some consequence needs to be built. What few people consider with rounding up illegals and deportation is the tremendous investment in time and resources to do such a thing...often times to apprehend the same person and complete the process again, just a few days later. Its a complex problem that requires a multi faceted answer.

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:49 pm
by greybeard
ddd75 wrote:socialism is not the answer.

It is for some, and that number is growing, tho they probably refer to themselves by less stigmatic and more 'socially' acceptable names.

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:09 pm
by Bestoutwest
greybeard wrote:
ddd75 wrote:socialism is not the answer.

It is for some, and that number is growing, tho they probably refer to themselves by less stigmatic and more 'socially' acceptable names.


Nope, they use it. This one's waving a flag proclaiming it.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/politics ... index.html

Re: New Endangered Species

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:00 pm
by Stocker Steve
Son of Butch wrote:Should there be a national goal?


No.

Even the weak minded should be able to handle the trade offs between 3 goals, and for over achievers up to 7 goals. :nod: