Pinkeye

Cattle problems.
User avatar
JW IN VA
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:30 pm
Location: West Central Highlands of Va

Re: Pinkeye

Postby JW IN VA » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:25 pm

BTW the last time I got enough to treat 100 head & it was $195.[/quote]

That's expensive.No doubt.It would cause a lot of people to think twice.

But,what does it cost to treat it and what loss do you have if you get a bad run like we did in Virginia last year? You can go through a bottle of 300LA in a little while.Draxin isn't cheap,either.

Just thinking out loud.
2 x
Not everything your neighbors do is wrong-Not everything they do is right,either.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3107
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS

Re: Pinkeye

Postby TCRanch » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:41 pm

JW IN VA wrote:BTW the last time I got enough to treat 100 head & it was $195.


That's expensive.No doubt.It would cause a lot of people to think twice.

But,what does it cost to treat it and what loss do you have if you get a bad run like we did in Virginia last year? You can go through a bottle of 300LA in a little while.Draxin isn't cheap,either.

Just thinking out loud.[/quote]

Not to mention the hassle & (quite often) subsequent drama of getting them in/working them, preferably when it's not 100 degrees.
1 x

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 7237
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Pinkeye

Postby Bright Raven » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:38 pm

TCRanch wrote:Not to mention the hassle & (quite often) subsequent drama of getting them in/working them, preferably when it's not 100 degrees.


The hassle is worse than the cost. My cattle summer on the back pastures, near a flowing stream. Although my cows are easy to work, regardless, they have to be brought to the front of the farm where the facilities are, the affected cow separated and treated. It also adds a bad experience into their memory of the facility - those oxytetracycline shots are not a pleasant experience.
1 x
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3107
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS

Re: Pinkeye

Postby TCRanch » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:40 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
TCRanch wrote:Not to mention the hassle & (quite often) subsequent drama of getting them in/working them, preferably when it's not 100 degrees.


The hassle is worse than the cost. My cattle summer on the back pastures, near a flowing stream. Although my cows are easy to work, regardless, they have to be brought to the front of the farm where the facilities are, the affected cow separated and treated. It also adds a bad experience into their memory of the facility - those oxytetracycline shots are not a pleasant experience.

Bingo! My girls are all hand feeders, love to be petted, easy to deal with - until they're not. It's amazing how a cow with any type of injury/in need of treatment can run &/or hide, generally where it's impossible to get to them. And as you well know, 6cc per 200 lbs. means a lot of injections in our fatties.
1 x

User avatar
JMJ Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3510
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:51 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: Pinkeye

Postby JMJ Farms » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Everyone who has cows should own a dart gun. Saves a lot of stress for man and beast alike.
0 x
“Watch your top knot” - Will Geer as Bear Claw in Jeremiah Johnson

User avatar
snoopdog
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:16 am
Location: ne oklahoma

Re: Pinkeye

Postby snoopdog » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:25 pm

JMJ Farms wrote:Everyone who has cows should own a dart gun. Saves a lot of stress for man and beast alike.
I AGREE that dart guns are a useful tool , just bought one after having to borrow more than thrice . But good handling teqhniques/and /or a feed bucket may make the expense unnecessary .
0 x
Being poor is the most expensive thing there is

User avatar
JMJ Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3510
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:51 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: Pinkeye

Postby JMJ Farms » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:42 pm

snoopdog wrote:
JMJ Farms wrote:Everyone who has cows should own a dart gun. Saves a lot of stress for man and beast alike.
I AGREE that dart guns are a useful tool , just bought one after having to borrow more than thrice . But good handling teqhniques/and /or a feed bucket may make the expense unnecessary .


Yeah it's like everything else. Different situations call for different measures. You can definitely get by without one but I wouldn't want to after having one. I've got close to a grand in mine with guns, darts, and all the other acc. But if you've got a calf with pneumonia, pinkeye, foot rot or something similar it sure is nice not to have to get up 100 head to doctor 1.
I've actually been a year without using mine until last week. Which is a good thing. I wanted one for several years before I could actually justify the expense.

Probably the best thing about the dart gun is the fact that you won't delay treatment. I used to be the worlds worst about seeing a cow or calf that looked or acted a little sick and I would say "I will check them tomorrow and if they're not better I will doctor them then". Now, I treat right then. If I see a calf with a cough and labored breathing, droopy ears, snot, whatever he gets a dart. The next day he will be fine. Early treatment is the biggest key to success IMO.
1 x
“Watch your top knot” - Will Geer as Bear Claw in Jeremiah Johnson

User avatar
bball
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2792
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:43 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Pinkeye

Postby bball » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:25 am

JMJ Farms wrote:
snoopdog wrote:
JMJ Farms wrote:Everyone who has cows should own a dart gun. Saves a lot of stress for man and beast alike.
I AGREE that dart guns are a useful tool , just bought one after having to borrow more than thrice . But good handling teqhniques/and /or a feed bucket may make the expense unnecessary .


Yeah it's like everything else. Different situations call for different measures. You can definitely get by without one but I wouldn't want to after having one. I've got close to a grand in mine with guns, darts, and all the other acc. But if you've got a calf with pneumonia, pinkeye, foot rot or something similar it sure is nice not to have to get up 100 head to doctor 1.
I've actually been a year without using mine until last week. Which is a good thing. I wanted one for several years before I could actually justify the expense.

Probably the best thing about the dart gun is the fact that you won't delay treatment. I used to be the worlds worst about seeing a cow or calf that looked or acted a little sick and I would say "I will check them tomorrow and if they're not better I will doctor them then". Now, I treat right then. If I see a calf with a cough and labored breathing, droopy ears, snot, whatever he gets a dart. The next day he will be fine. Early treatment is the biggest key to success IMO.

JMJ,
Tell me more about this dart gun please. For example, had to give 60 ml of LA200 in multiple injection sites. Please explain how the dart gun accomplishes this task. We talking multiple darts? Or is there a different treatment protocol or use different medications? I agree wholeheartedly on your assessment of treating animals. At the other pasture, where the cows run all summer, I have it divided into 20 Ac paddocks. The working pen/chute is in front pasture by the road. Guess how many times we have health issues while in front? Yep, that's right never. Feels like they're always in pasture 3 or 4(farthest 2 away from pens). Again, I'm a small time hobby guy, but it can take several hours to lead 30 cow calf pairs, a few rogue heifers and a bull across multiple pastures. Especially after they been on a pasture a while and you try to rrun them across some nice new grazing; being a one man band most days. Even the bucket ain't enough to lure them off sometimes. Once to the pen, i still have to sort out the sick ones = more time, then, after treated, have to return them from whence the came. I know you have lived this scenario as well.
0 x
We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are. -Anais Nin
Happy people build their inner world; unhappy people blame their outer world. -Dalai Lama

User avatar
JMJ Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3510
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:51 pm
Location: Middle Georgia

Re: Pinkeye

Postby JMJ Farms » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:10 am

Hey bball. Been awhile. Large dosages are the only downside. I have a Cap Chur rifle model dart gun. Gun runs on CO2. Dart uses a .22 blank. Biggest dart I have is 20cc. So if I had to dart a cow for foot rot in the field I would have to use a different med with a lower dosage or hit them multiple times. I THINK Excede is labeled for foot rot. I use 10cc darts or less 99% of the time. And I know all too well about sickness or calving problems happening at the farthest point from the lot!
1 x
“Watch your top knot” - Will Geer as Bear Claw in Jeremiah Johnson

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 7237
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Pinkeye

Postby Bright Raven » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:44 am

bball wrote:Tell me more about this dart gun please. For example, had to give 60 ml of LA200 in multiple injection sites. Please explain how the dart gun accomplishes this task. We talking multiple darts? Or is there a different treatment protocol or use different medications? I agree wholeheartedly on your assessment of treating animals. At the other pasture, where the cows run all summer, I have it divided into 20 Ac paddocks. The working pen/chute is in front pasture by the road. Guess how many times we have health issues while in front? Yep, that's right never. Feels like they're always in pasture 3 or 4(farthest 2 away from pens). Again, I'm a small time hobby guy, but it can take several hours to lead 30 cow calf pairs, a few rogue heifers and a bull across multiple pastures. Especially after they been on a pasture a while and you try to rrun them across some nice new grazing; being a one man band most days. Even the bucket ain't enough to lure them off sometimes. Once to the pen, i still have to sort out the sick ones = more time, then, after treated, have to return them from whence the came. I know you have lived this scenario as well.


The dart gun is marginally beneficial. Lots of times, treatment requires more than an injection. For example, a cow limping may have an abscess which needs to be dressed. Or there might be an object between the claws. As mentioned, the dart gun eliminates the thick high volume injectables.

I have some of your issues with regard to being a one man band and summer grazing. Nevertheless, I can get them up here.

At the end of the day, vaccination and keeping the cattle healthy with proper mineral, etc. will save you some hassle.
0 x
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3107
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS

Re: Pinkeye

Postby TCRanch » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:58 am

Can you put a scope on a dart gun? I absolutely do not qualify as a sharp shooter plus I'm right handed but left eye dominant. And do the darts inject the meds SQ (as most are supposed to be administered)? Last cow I doctored needed 90cc. Since protocol is no more than 10cc per injection site I'd have to dart her 9 times - can't imagine she'd just stand there & take it.
0 x

User avatar
snoopdog
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:16 am
Location: ne oklahoma

Re: Pinkeye

Postby snoopdog » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:48 am

Mine is drilled and tapped for a scope mount , and as mentioned with a larger dose you would want to find another med or get her up. It takes a little while before they act "normal" again after shooting them 2 or 3 times . But I too feel that I am more likely to treat them right then , rather than wait a day to see if they improved on their own . I mentioned expense in my first reply , but the dart gun is a long term investment , another tool that will last for years and if you save just one by treating quicker , it's paid for .
1 x
Being poor is the most expensive thing there is

Dempster
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: Pinkeye

Postby Dempster » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:54 pm

Dart guns should be fired at a range of about 10 yards from the target animal. If you can't get that close to your cows, or you can't hit the neck of a cow at 10 yards without a scope, you should not buy a dart gun.

LA 200/300 is generally not administered with dart guns, thick products like LA, Nuflor, Excenel, and Excede do not flow though darts well. Additionally, Excede is only labeled to be given behind the ear and you are going to face some long withdrawal times if it is given in the neck. You should not be giving more than 10 cc with a single dart, and I would avoid using a dart gun if you cant get the labeled dose into the animal with 1 or 2 total darts.

There are both disposable and reusable darts. Dart recovery in some circumstances can be a significant challenge as many darts have a melting wax barb that allows the dart to stay in while medication is injected, but may require an hour or more to melt prior to falling out. Many of these darts are never recovered resulting in pastures contaminated with sharp needles. There are some dart systems with smaller or no barbs, but there can be challenges assuring these darts stay in the neck when the medication is administered.

Many darts use side ejection port needles so that the medication does not blow the dart out by being injected through the end of a needle. Many darts are designed to give a sub-q injection, but most of these in reality deposit the medication in the muscle.

Additionally, you need to account for the fact that 10-20% of darts either discharge their medication prior to reaching the target, or never discharge after striking the animal. Most producers do not realize or admit to that kind of a failure rate, but that is about what it will run.

Lastly, dart guns are generally going to cost you significantly more per treatment. If you have two 1400# cows starting to get pinkeye in a pasture, you can treat each with a dose of LA 200 for less than $5 a head. However, if you dart the 2 cows with draxxin, which is probably the most popular medication put through darts, you will be looking at spending aboud $70/ hd on draxxin and each cow will require 2 disposable darts that cost $5 a piece, for a total cost of $80/hd. With just 2 cows, you have spent an extra $150 to dart instead of catching and treating them. And you are less confident in the end that they received the medication you administered and you aren't able to do any other treatment to them since they were never caught in a chute. And you may have a couple darts laying around the pasture somewhere. But you didn't have to set up a pen and catch them.
4 x

User avatar
Chocolate Cow2
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:53 pm
Location: In a van down by the river

Re: Pinkeye

Postby Chocolate Cow2 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:05 pm

There is some concern about darting in the neck. Locally, there has been death loss reportedly due to hitting the wrong area of the neck. I have a dart rifle and it's gotten darn hard for me to use it. I agree 110% with Dempster's failure rate of 20%. I've talked to PneuDart about it with no acknowledgement from them. I've had darts bounce off the animal and discharge into the ground, dart tails fall off as it left the rifle and many that stuck but never delivered the medication. I've seen the medicine fly out of the dart as it left the rifle. For myself, I can't imagine how painful it is for the animal to suddenly be hit by one of these darts. That's just my opinion. A few years ago, pinkeye was awful and I used my dart rifle a lot. The darting made my cattle nervous and afraid of me for awhile. I realize how difficult it can be to constantly gather a herd for treatment, but I've gotten very reluctant to pull the trigger.
1 x

User avatar
Bright Raven
GURU
GURU
Posts: 7237
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Pinkeye

Postby Bright Raven » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:15 pm

Chocolate Cow2 wrote:There is some concern about darting in the neck. Locally, there has been death loss reportedly due to hitting the wrong area of the neck. I have a dart rifle and it's gotten darn hard for me to use it. I agree 110% with Dempster's failure rate of 20%. I've talked to PneuDart about it with no acknowledgement from them. I've had darts bounce off the animal and discharge into the ground, dart tails fall off as it left the rifle and many that stuck but never delivered the medication. I've seen the medicine fly out of the dart as it left the rifle. For myself, I can't imagine how painful it is for the animal to suddenly be hit by one of these darts. That's just my opinion. A few years ago, pinkeye was awful and I used my dart rifle a lot. The darting made my cattle nervous and afraid of me for awhile. I realize how difficult it can be to constantly gather a herd for treatment, but I've gotten very reluctant to pull the trigger.


I have read reports on the use of dart guns and it is right on with what Dumpster posted.
1 x
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.


Return to “Health & Nutrition”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Coosh71, Supa Dexta, TCRanch and 9 guests