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Re: Cow Down

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:07 pm
by ALACOWMAN
backhoeboogie wrote:
TexasBred wrote:
backhoeboogie wrote:
Yes. Many times. A vet had given up on one that was down for over a week. The owner gave me the cow. I think he knew I had a backhoe and he didn't want to pay disposal. The vet had been giving her an IV every day. I gave her two tubes of CMPK before I pulled her in the trailer. Treated her knees when I got her home because she had rubbed them raw. I had her on her feet by the next day. Owner didn't believe it and had to come take a look. I wound up buying her.

This is one we might could throw the :bs: flag on. Vet was most likely giving CMPK via IV and should have got same results as you and a day earlier. Then again he may have only given her a dextrose solution.


Why just throw one flag ? Throw a couple of dozen. It doesn't matter. I am answering BK9954.

Talk to Doc Kinnard out of Mabank, TX. He's the vet who taught me this.

The owner was a probation officer out of Granbury. He spent money for the cow. Then spent a fortune with the vet. Then GAVE the cow to me. His wife pitched a hissy when she found out. So I told him I had X dollars and my time invested and he was welcome to take her back. Then he felt bad and offered to sell her at a low price. Both front knee joints were raw. She wasn't worth much at the sale barn. So I wound up buying her. I could give you his name as well if I knew it was okay.

Being ""down""over a week was probably here biggest problem, even after treatment.. You moving her around was most likely what did the trick..

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:47 pm
by TexasBred
backhoeboogie wrote:
TexasBred wrote:
backhoeboogie wrote:
Yes. Many times. A vet had given up on one that was down for over a week. The owner gave me the cow. I think he knew I had a backhoe and he didn't want to pay disposal. The vet had been giving her an IV every day. I gave her two tubes of CMPK before I pulled her in the trailer. Treated her knees when I got her home because she had rubbed them raw. I had her on her feet by the next day. Owner didn't believe it and had to come take a look. I wound up buying her.

This is one we might could throw the :bs: flag on. Vet was most likely giving CMPK via IV and should have got same results as you and a day earlier. Then again he may have only given her a dextrose solution.


Why just throw one flag ? Throw a couple of dozen. It doesn't matter. I am answering BK9954.

Talk to Doc Kinnard out of Mabank, TX. He's the vet who taught me this.

The owner was a probation officer out of Granbury. He spent money for the cow. Then spent a fortune with the vet. Then GAVE the cow to me. His wife pitched a hissy when she found out. So I told him I had X dollars and my time invested and he was welcome to take her back. Then he felt bad and offered to sell her at a low price. Both front knee joints were raw. She wasn't worth much at the sale barn. So I wound up buying her. I could give you his name as well if I knew it was okay.

BHB there is a reason 99% of veterinarians use IV's of CMPK or something like Narcalciphos for milk fever. It works and it works quickly. Milk fever can kill sometimes kill in minutes. Not saying the paste does not work and your vet probably recommended it because he knew you didn't know how to administer an IV solution. I'll stick with IV's if I have a cow with milk fever.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:51 pm
by backhoeboogie
My answer to BK5994 remains as stated. Nothing to add.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:34 pm
by farmerjan
I'm not good with IV's in the neck, but I can get it in the milk vein when the cow is down. Still, I will use a tube of gel when I have some reservations about a heavy bred cow, especially an older jersey. Another thing an old vet told me once.... use the calcium CMPK tube, then about a half hour to an hour later, give them just an energy gel tube. As the calcium gets into their system, then the energy will follow and give them some extra "oomph" and they will often get up. It's not a big deal to keep a few tubes of the gel on hand and you don't have to deal with the needles or trying to keep it sanitary. We have given a few over the years to older beef cows that have been wobbly or down. It won't hurt them if that is not the reason they are down either. And sometimes, moving them will relieve pressure on the nerves and that could have been PART of why a cow doesn't get up.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:23 pm
by ez14.
TexasBred wrote:
backhoeboogie wrote:
TexasBred wrote:This is one we might could throw the :bs: flag on. Vet was most likely giving CMPK via IV and should have got same results as you and a day earlier. Then again he may have only given her a dextrose solution.


Why just throw one flag ? Throw a couple of dozen. It doesn't matter. I am answering BK9954.

Talk to Doc Kinnard out of Mabank, TX. He's the vet who taught me this.

The owner was a probation officer out of Granbury. He spent money for the cow. Then spent a fortune with the vet. Then GAVE the cow to me. His wife pitched a hissy when she found out. So I told him I had X dollars and my time invested and he was welcome to take her back. Then he felt bad and offered to sell her at a low price. Both front knee joints were raw. She wasn't worth much at the sale barn. So I wound up buying her. I could give you his name as well if I knew it was okay.

BHB there is a reason 99% of veterinarians use IV's of CMPK or something like Narcalciphos for milk fever. It works and it works quickly. Milk fever can kill sometimes kill in minutes. Not saying the paste does not work and your vet probably recommended it because he knew you didn't know how to administer an IV solution. I'll stick with IV's if I have a cow with milk fever.

IV's odvisoly work the best no argument there. But the convenients of the bolus makes it well worth the extra 50 minutes before the cow gets up to me

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:58 pm
by backhoeboogie
Please read the original post. Think about the original time span cited. That seems a little long to me. The original poster feels it was fast.

Yes I have experienced it that quick. Usually faster. Not everyone has been the same age. Not every one has been the same breed. Some it doesn't work on.

Seeing is believing. That is why I order 12 tubes at a time from Valley Vet. Because I have seen it. Many times.

That folks, is why I answered yes, and cited the most extreme case I have experienced.

I am really sorry many of you have not experienced this success. All you have to do is answer "no". For me the answer is yes.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:14 pm
by Silver
I saw milk fever once when I was a kid. Dad and Grandpa had her fixed up in minutes with a lantern pump and some twine. Sometimes the old remedies work just as well I guess.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:53 am
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
OK, Silver, I'll bite. What did they pump and what did they use the twine for?
Hate to even say the words, but I have never seen milk fever in my herd - 48 years. And, this is a heavy milking breed.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:54 am
by JMJ Farms
Silver wrote:I saw milk fever once when I was a kid. Dad and Grandpa had her fixed up in minutes with a lantern pump and some twine. Sometimes the old remedies work just as well I guess.


Do elaborate. This is a new one for me.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:37 am
by Silver
JMJ Farms wrote:
Silver wrote:I saw milk fever once when I was a kid. Dad and Grandpa had her fixed up in minutes with a lantern pump and some twine. Sometimes the old remedies work just as well I guess.


Do elaborate. This is a new one for me.


Thought I explained it before. You use the pump on the cows teats to pump the milk back into the bloodstream, thereby reintroducing calcium. It's the old method from before IV's and such. The twine is to tie off the teat to keep the milk up.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:32 am
by TexasBred
ez14. wrote:
TexasBred wrote:
backhoeboogie wrote:
Why just throw one flag ? Throw a couple of dozen. It doesn't matter. I am answering BK9954.

Talk to Doc Kinnard out of Mabank, TX. He's the vet who taught me this.

The owner was a probation officer out of Granbury. He spent money for the cow. Then spent a fortune with the vet. Then GAVE the cow to me. His wife pitched a hissy when she found out. So I told him I had X dollars and my time invested and he was welcome to take her back. Then he felt bad and offered to sell her at a low price. Both front knee joints were raw. She wasn't worth much at the sale barn. So I wound up buying her. I could give you his name as well if I knew it was okay.

BHB there is a reason 99% of veterinarians use IV's of CMPK or something like Narcalciphos for milk fever. It works and it works quickly. Milk fever can kill sometimes kill in minutes. Not saying the paste does not work and your vet probably recommended it because he knew you didn't know how to administer an IV solution. I'll stick with IV's if I have a cow with milk fever.

IV's odvisoly work the best no argument there. But the convenients of the bolus makes it well worth the extra 50 minutes before the cow gets up to me

True but as Farmerjan just posted the milk vein is sticking out at you like a big target and so easy to utilize and meds go to work immediately. I would always follow with a bottle of 50% dextrose solution.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:03 pm
by JMJ Farms
Silver wrote:
JMJ Farms wrote:
Silver wrote:I saw milk fever once when I was a kid. Dad and Grandpa had her fixed up in minutes with a lantern pump and some twine. Sometimes the old remedies work just as well I guess.


Do elaborate. This is a new one for me.


Thought I explained it before. You use the pump on the cows teats to pump the milk back into the bloodstream, thereby reintroducing calcium. It's the old method from before IV's and such. The twine is to tie off the teat to keep the milk up.


Must have missed it the first go round. That’s very interesting. I can honestly say I’ve never heard that before. But it does make perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation :tiphat:

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:25 pm
by TexasBred
Silver wrote:
JMJ Farms wrote:
Silver wrote:I saw milk fever once when I was a kid. Dad and Grandpa had her fixed up in minutes with a lantern pump and some twine. Sometimes the old remedies work just as well I guess.


Do elaborate. This is a new one for me.


Thought I explained it before. You use the pump on the cows teats to pump the milk back into the bloodstream, thereby reintroducing calcium. It's the old method from before IV's and such. The twine is to tie off the teat to keep the milk up.

Help me out here Silver. They pumped the milk back into a teat OR they pumped it into a vein such as the milk vein. Just doesn't sound like it would be effective at all but can't explain why a lot of old remedies work.

Re: Cow Down

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:34 pm
by Silver
TexasBred wrote:
Silver wrote:
JMJ Farms wrote:
Do elaborate. This is a new one for me.


Thought I explained it before. You use the pump on the cows teats to pump the milk back into the bloodstream, thereby reintroducing calcium. It's the old method from before IV's and such. The twine is to tie off the teat to keep the milk up.

Help me out here Silver. They pumped the milk back into a teat OR they pumped it into a vein such as the milk vein. Just doesn't sound like it would be effective at all but can't explain why a lot of old remedies work.


They pumped air into the teat, forcing milk back into the blood stream.