Bull with stifle injury

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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby TCRanch » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:03 pm

Chocolate Cow2 wrote:Here 'ya go TC. Just load that bull up and take him to K-State. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 171031.htm

He does have obamiecare, right? :lol:

That's probably when one of my vets was still at K-State. Rod's registered but not a top dollar bull & NO Obamacare for him so thinking the $$$$ out of my pocket for the surgery would equal the amount of buying a new bull.

Interesting link, thanks for sharing!
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby Dempster » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:55 am

I wouldn't expend a lot of effort trying to get aspirin in him, as a ruminant he will not be able to utilize much of it.
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby TCRanch » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:14 pm

Dempster wrote:I wouldn't expend a lot of effort trying to get aspirin in him, as a ruminant he will not be able to utilize much of it.

Had to look it up: "slowly and incompletely absorbed". So while it may help a little, this is evidently another case of do it if it makes me feel better. Good to know, thanks!
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby Stocker Steve » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:11 pm

Lots of threads on injured bulls. Lots of threads on bulls with attitude. Lots of threads on bulls fighting...
What is an average productive life for a breeding bull in a multi sire pasture?
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby elkwc » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:44 am

Stocker Steve wrote:Lots of threads on injured bulls. Lots of threads on bulls with attitude. Lots of threads on bulls fighting...
What is an average productive life for a breeding bull in a multi sire pasture?


Steve I will be watching the replies to your question.

We sold some 10-11 y/o bulls in the last 3 years. Used to run 2 bulls together. On the big ranches I’e been around in rough semi arid country it was 8-10 years. Now some PB breeders are telling me that a commercial breeder should only expect 6 years. And even if he is still sound he should be sold then in order to turn generations over faster. The 8-20 is still my goal.
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby TCRanch » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:16 am

I'm commercial, haven't had the best luck and 6 years is the longest I've ever kept a bull:
Stud Muffin broke his, um, "muffin" - had him a whopping 9 weeks. Replaced him with Not Bob (not to be confused with Bob the Viagra Guy) & he had warts on his, um, "muffin". Vet cut them off twice but ended up selling him after 3 months of treatment (the vet bills & check went to the breeder, who replaced him the next year free of charge). MoLester lasted 2 years but was a jumper. Had Peter 1 year before he charged my husband. Buh bye! Chester & aforementioned Bob both made it 6 years before I needed to replace them. I've had Dick 5 years and contingent on his BSE will keep him at least another year. Johnson & Rod are only 3, bought them as yearlings & looks like Rod's on his way out.
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:44 am

TCRanch wrote:I'm commercial, haven't had the best luck and 6 years is the longest I've ever kept a bull:
Stud Muffin broke his, um, "muffin" - had him a whopping 9 weeks. Replaced him with Not Bob (not to be confused with Bob the Viagra Guy) & he had warts on his, um, "muffin". Vet cut them off twice but ended up selling him after 3 months of treatment (the vet bills & check went to the breeder, who replaced him the next year free of charge). MoLester lasted 2 years but was a jumper. Had Peter 1 year before he charged my husband. Buh bye! Chester & aforementioned Bob both made it 6 years before I needed to replace them. I've had Dick 5 years and contingent on his BSE will keep him at least another year. Johnson & Rod are only 3, bought them as yearlings & looks like Rod's on his way out.

You need some better luck, I assume you buy bulls from different breeders?
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby Ebenezer » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:04 am

I tend to think that proper leg set and total skeletal positioning is a positive in keeping bulls longer without leg issues. Slow development is a key to keeping bulls around longer. Throw in proper feet for a look-see when thinking about it. Post legged, swoop backed, fat and heavy fed bulls prior to 2 YO are a way to keep the revolving door going on bulls for the farm. Eight years is not an uncommon age for a bull that can be used longer but usually sold just to make room for more.
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby TCRanch » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:03 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
TCRanch wrote:I'm commercial, haven't had the best luck and 6 years is the longest I've ever kept a bull:
Stud Muffin broke his, um, "muffin" - had him a whopping 9 weeks. Replaced him with Not Bob (not to be confused with Bob the Viagra Guy) & he had warts on his, um, "muffin". Vet cut them off twice but ended up selling him after 3 months of treatment (the vet bills & check went to the breeder, who replaced him the next year free of charge). MoLester lasted 2 years but was a jumper. Had Peter 1 year before he charged my husband. Buh bye! Chester & aforementioned Bob both made it 6 years before I needed to replace them. I've had Dick 5 years and contingent on his BSE will keep him at least another year. Johnson & Rod are only 3, bought them as yearlings & looks like Rod's on his way out.

You need some better luck, I assume you buy bulls from different breeders?

Actually only from 2 different breeders. The breeder that sold us the bull that broke his penis was completely honest that the only heifer bull left had warts & if our vet couldn't eliminate the problem he'd make good on it the following year, which he did. Bought the jumper from him but I don't think that's a reflection on the breeder. Also bought the one that charged my husband from him. Breeder said he'd give us a discount on a replacement but we ended up selling that bull to a large operation in OK. They were fully aware of his attitude problem but they do everything on horseback, didn't care. That bull even charged the horses so they ended up working him with dogs and still have him. Waited until the following year to buy a replacement (ended up with 2) and they were from a local breeder that had been in business 40 years. Naturally he retired the following year. So possibly back to the first breeder but researching my options. Bob & Dick were from the 1st breeder & I couldn't be happier with them, awesome bulls.
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby 76 Bar » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:37 pm

Heartily agree with Ebenezer's assessments.
TCRanch...seed stock breeders worth patronizing DO NOT offer bulls with known problems including but certainly not limited to penile warts nor behavioral/disposition issues.
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby TCRanch » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:51 pm

76 Bar wrote:Heartily agree with Ebenezer's assessments.
TCRanch...seed stock breeders worth patronizing DO NOT offer bulls with known problems including but certainly not limited to penile warts nor behavioral/disposition issues.

To the breeder's credit, he was under no obligation to compensate us for the bull with the broken penis (certainly wasn't his fault) and he didn't charge us for one of the replacements we purchased the following year. That said, the bull with the nasty disposition was hot loading on the trailer even though he seemed fine in the pens prior to the sale. As this breeder's operation grew they went from a lot of private treaty to mainly auction (leftovers can still be purchased private). Personally, I hate auctions because as we learned, it's hard to judge disposition.

Thank you and everyone else for the comments - always a chance to gather valuable information!
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:28 pm

I used to buy long yearlings. None have made it close to eight. Only way for me to get an old bull, is to buy an old bull.
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby Boot Jack Bulls » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:36 pm

I have gone to the practice of only buying bulls under one year old, unless I am completely certain of the way they are developed as youngsters. I avoid any program that thinks a TMR is the way to bring up bulls and refuse to buy bulls put through "tests". I think both cases push young bulls way too hard and ruin them.
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby farmerjan » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:54 pm

We buy bulls from a couple of different breeders. All at "bull sales". We have also bought a few from a "buyer" who has bought out small farmers complete herd sales a couple of times. We raised 3 et's out of a small group of cows we bought and still have 2. Raised up one bull out of a neighbors heifer that was bred to one of our bulls, he decided to get rid of his 3 cows that next year. They were registered and nice so we bought them. These bulls are all 7 or 8 now.
Out of the registered bull sales, we just sold one that was 10, started to have a limp and we just decided he could go. Have one from a 2013 sale, one from a 2014 sale, they were about 12-15 months when we bought them. Both were/are easing calving bulls that we still use on our heifers. They are gentle easy breeders and are in the 16-1700 lb range. Have another from this same breeder that is a 2016 sale, and bought one in 2017 that has seen limited use this spring. These two are plus weight as we are afraid of getting the heifers too small and decreasing the overall size & weight of the calves and subsequent cows.
We also have 2 older bulls that were from farm dispersals. Just liked the one bull and he throws awesome calves. Probably was reg/purebred. Have had him 4 years and he was mature when we got him so probably 7-8 at least. The other is at least 6-7 and he will go this year because he has a tendency to want to wander.
The one place we have bought several bulls from is because he does not believe in creep feeding his calves, the cow must milk enough to grow the calf until weaning. Not saying that drought might not change things but it is not their practice. They stress "grass genetics" and we have benefited from it. These are all angus bulls. Have had a couple of Braunvieh bulls, but they didn't add anything to our calves. Have a really nice young Limi bull, with real strong muscling on the rump area that we got last fall so he is about 26-27 months. I'd have to look at his papers. But we are waiting to see what the calves dispositions come out as because the last limi we used the calves were all high strung. Both from this same herd.

If a bull wants to be argumentative, he goes. They have to be quiet and easy going because I can not run to get away from a bull that wants to be a jerk. Don't want one that is going to want to fight the truck or 4-wheeler or try to go through or over fences. We like them to come when called with a bucket of feed and not be bothered if I am out checking the cows. Same with the cows. They are not really "pets" but must understand that I am not their enemy in the barn or in the field.
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Re: Bull with stifle injury

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:14 pm

Boot Jack Bulls wrote:I avoid any program that thinks a TMR is the way to bring up bulls and refuse to buy bulls put through "tests". I think both cases push young bulls way too hard and ruin them.


What issues would you expect with a bull that was pushed too hard?
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