Numerous limping cows

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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Fire Sweep Ranch » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:58 pm

Banjo wrote:
Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:
Our cows are on good mineral (Vitaferm), are healthy, and have adequate flesh. I really think we are having an outbreak because of the drought, and really bad, dry, rocky soil. Ron has explained, in the creek area and anywhere there is no pasture, the rocks are VERY sharp and range in size from grape to orange, just not round! I have now treated 8 cows with a limp, and three of them have wounds like above. I am hoping my trimmer friend who does the dairy cows next property over can get me on his short list to get these cows looked at on the table.


Could you describe your good mineral...whats in it?


http://vitaferm.com/product-categories/ ... -products/
This is what we use in the summer.

And this once the flies die, until spring:
http://vitaferm.com/product-categories/ ... -products/
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Banjo » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:26 pm

Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:
Banjo wrote:
Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:
Our cows are on good mineral (Vitaferm), are healthy, and have adequate flesh. I really think we are having an outbreak because of the drought, and really bad, dry, rocky soil. Ron has explained, in the creek area and anywhere there is no pasture, the rocks are VERY sharp and range in size from grape to orange, just not round! I have now treated 8 cows with a limp, and three of them have wounds like above. I am hoping my trimmer friend who does the dairy cows next property over can get me on his short list to get these cows looked at on the table.


Could you describe your good mineral...whats in it?


http://vitaferm.com/product-categories/ ... -products/
This is what we use in the summer.

And this once the flies die, until spring:
http://vitaferm.com/product-categories/ ... -products/

I was curious to see if you fed high mag mineral. I feed purinas high mag wind and rain mineral year round nowadays. I find that if I go off the high mag for a couple of months.... by switching to the regular all season mineral or some other brand with low or no mag.....things start going south for my herd.
Ironically, I had visit a few months ago from the purina rep....I guess for this part of the state...this guy was the district manager or something high up and he was accompanying the young rep that day.
The district manager said he used to manage a big ranch somewhere out west and he began to tell me how much magnesium per day a cow needs especially if she is nursing. He said cattle cannot get enough from most grasses and hay along with the low levels in the average mineral.
Anyway, that may or may not be your problem. I just thought I would share what he told me.

That's my opinion.....feel free to make it yours.

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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by snoopdog » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:58 pm

Banjo wrote:
Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:
Banjo wrote:
Could you describe your good mineral...whats in it?


http://vitaferm.com/product-categories/ ... -products/
This is what we use in the summer.

And this once the flies die, until spring:
http://vitaferm.com/product-categories/ ... -products/

I was curious to see if you fed high mag mineral. I feed purinas high mag wind and rain mineral year round nowadays. I find that if I go off the high mag for a couple of months.... by switching to the regular all season mineral or some other brand with low or no mag.....things start going south for my herd. Our ground is the same here FS and yes , described to a tee by BR.
Ironically, I had visit a few months ago from the purina rep....I guess for this part of the state...this guy was the district manager or something high up and he was accompanying the young rep that day.
The district manager said he used to manage a big ranch somewhere out west and he began to tell me how much magnesium per day a cow needs especially if she is nursing. He said cattle cannot get enough from most grasses and hay along with the low levels in the average mineral.
Anyway, that may or may not be your problem. I just thought I would share what he told me.
That is very good mineral and I have had the same results when taking them off of the hi mag, no matter what brand .
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Fire Sweep Ranch » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:20 pm

OK, hoof trimmer came out today, and thankfully hubby took some pics for me. My cattle have White Line Disease, due to the change in the ground so quickly from the very dry and hot to the sudden moisture from rains (which, we are dry again!). Sole becomes soft, and easily injured by rocks. (https://www.merckvetmanual.com/musculos ... -in-cattle)
Here are some pics:
This cow just came up lame a few days ago. She is due to calve next week, so heavy bred. She weighs 1575, and we treated her Saturday with LA300.
Image
Notice the blood dripping from the left (bottom) foot? That is a new lesion. On her right foot (top), the injury is starting to ulcerate.

This one has the ulcer that has worked all the way up to her hairline, see where it is circled? Both back feet were bad
Image
So she got a pair of shoes
Image


This cow has an old one (bottom foot) that had cleared and was healing, and a new one (top foot). She came up as sore about 45 days ago, I treated, she got better, then sore again.
Image

This is the one pictured earlier in this thread, where I showed you the big open wound on her heal. This is what it looks like when it is cleaned up (the cherry red heal is the one I pictured for you guys)
Image


This one is a new one, just showed symptoms a week ago. See where the ulcer was dug out?
Image
And with new shoes
Image

We have NEVER had more than one cow that needed this type of treatment. Our trimmer said we needed to keep them out of the creek where the majority of the rocks are located. Unfortunately, it is the only way to the pastures we graze. My bill today was $400, so I wonder how much a bridge would cost to build across two different creek crossings???? :bang:

Hopefully, some of you learned something. I plan on visiting with my vet about this, see if we need to tweak our mineral program or what? I plan on doing some research on the high mag thing, you might be onto something.
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Fire Sweep Ranch » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:24 pm

Here is a really good article about it, how it happens and how to treat it.

http://cdrf.org/wp-content/uploads/2012 ... e-Line.pdf
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by snoopdog » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:30 pm

Thanks for the pics and the update !
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Bright Raven » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:41 pm

Note: It might be hard for some folks to visualize the nature of the topography in the region of your farm. As I described in a previous post, the rocks on the surface at your farm are 100 % fractured chert. It is literally like walking on broken glass. The creek beds consist of a 100 % surface of fractured chert.

I think your foot trimmer is correct. I would fence off your creek beds. You could use poly wire. I know you must cross the creek beds to access pastures but you could fence off the creek in all other areas.

I don't believe it is mineral. I use the exact same mineral regiment that you do. I have ZERO foot issues and our cows are very similar in size and pedigree.
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Boot Jack Bulls » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:09 pm

FSSR, do you also have loose salt with EDDI out for them (I assume you do, but thought it worth mentioning)? Also, instead of building bridges, perhaps a load or two of smooth river rock in a specified crossing might be plausible. On another note, anytime I have feet trimmed, it paint pine tar on the coronal band. Obviously, not a good idea on ones with open wounds such as those you posted, but for regular trimmings it is helpful in maintaining good foot health on poor soil/weather.
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Fire Sweep Ranch » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:44 pm

Boot Jack Bulls wrote:FSSR, do you also have loose salt with EDDI out for them (I assume you do, but thought it worth mentioning)? Also, instead of building bridges, perhaps a load or two of smooth river rock in a specified crossing might be plausible. On another note, anytime I have feet trimmed, it paint pine tar on the coronal band. Obviously, not a good idea on ones with open wounds such as those you posted, but for regular trimmings it is helpful in maintaining good foot health on poor soil/weather.


Yes, they have lose salt.

The problem with putting out rock (or anything) is that the creeks run hard several times a year. We have to replace water gaps at least once a year, so the rock would just wash away. We put in a culvert once, but it washed away the same year. Something more permanent would be needed. I will have to look up the pine tar... where do you get it?
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Boot Jack Bulls » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:52 pm

FSSR, it is in the horse hoof care section of most farm stores. Just get the plain tar, without any extras in it. IMHO, those expensive hoof conditioners are counterproductive. I keep a stash of cheap paint brushes on hand to smear it on with. And put the jar in a small bucket or something so you don't have to get it on your hands. Just paint a good glob on the hair line of each hoof, even the bulb. We live on clay and rocks here, so I feel you pain on this one. My horses have a perpetual minor case of white line. Tar really helps keep the hoof hard and healthy.
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by JMJ Farms » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:56 pm

Fire Sweep Ranch wrote:
Boot Jack Bulls wrote:FSSR, do you also have loose salt with EDDI out for them (I assume you do, but thought it worth mentioning)? Also, instead of building bridges, perhaps a load or two of smooth river rock in a specified crossing might be plausible. On another note, anytime I have feet trimmed, it paint pine tar on the coronal band. Obviously, not a good idea on ones with open wounds such as those you posted, but for regular trimmings it is helpful in maintaining good foot health on poor soil/weather.


Yes, they have lose salt.

The problem with putting out rock (or anything) is that the creeks run hard several times a year. We have to replace water gaps at least once a year, so the rock would just wash away. We put in a culvert once, but it washed away the same year. Something more permanent would be needed. I will have to look up the pine tar... where do you get it?


QuickCrete will work if you catch the creek low. Pretty cheap too. As long as the water isn’t running you can just pour it in and smooth it out with the back of a rake. When the water gets high again it will just run over the top.
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Dogs and Cows » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:35 am

I have a question along these lines...we have had so much rain this fall winter that everything is totally mudded in...it is biblical. I had a cow come up limping...but was sure it was trauma because the bull was breeding her...and she did recover and is not limping now. However, yesterday I go over and check out the girls and I have 2 more limping. All front lets/feet. I don't see any swelling...but am gonna have the wife check with me...she is much better at these things than me. I am hoping it is not hoof rot, but it does seem strange. It is hard for the cattle to move around because of so much mud and muck...very slippery and deep. Wife commented need to move to high ground...problem is with so much precipitation...there is no high ground to get them to...everything is a total muddy mess. Any thoughts? Trauma?


Thanks,

Tim

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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Caustic Burno » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:46 am

Dogs and Cows wrote:I have a question along these lines...we have had so much rain this fall winter that everything is totally mudded in...it is biblical. I had a cow come up limping...but was sure it was trauma because the bull was breeding her...and she did recover and is not limping now. However, yesterday I go over and check out the girls and I have 2 more limping. All front lets/feet. I don't see any swelling...but am gonna have the wife check with me...she is much better at these things than me. I am hoping it is not hoof rot, but it does seem strange. It is hard for the cattle to move around because of so much mud and muck...very slippery and deep. Wife commented need to move to high ground...problem is with so much precipitation...there is no high ground to get them to...everything is a total muddy mess. Any thoughts? Trauma?


Thanks,

Tim


By supplementing iodine along with spraying.
You can reduce hoof rot by spraying down around feeding areas and their feet. I keep a 25 gallon spray tank on the mule with 10% Clorox solution.

I haven’t had a case in years and hoof rot is an issue in this part of the world.
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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Ebenezer » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:35 am

Bright Raven wrote:Note: It might be hard for some folks to visualize the nature of the topography in the region of your farm. As I described in a previous post, the rocks on the surface at your farm are 100 % fractured chert. It is literally like walking on broken glass. The creek beds consist of a 100 % surface of fractured chert.

I think your foot trimmer is correct. I would fence off your creek beds. You could use poly wire. I know you must cross the creek beds to access pastures but you could fence off the creek in all other areas.

I don't believe it is mineral. I use the exact same mineral regiment that you do. I have ZERO foot issues and our cows are very similar in size and pedigree.

You probably covered this in the posts but you do not have concrete areas where there are rocks tracked onto the concrete? That really is a bad deal. Sorry that you have the issues.

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Re: Numerous limping cows

Post by Bright Raven » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:45 pm

Ebenezer wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:Note: It might be hard for some folks to visualize the nature of the topography in the region of your farm. As I described in a previous post, the rocks on the surface at your farm are 100 % fractured chert. It is literally like walking on broken glass. The creek beds consist of a 100 % surface of fractured chert.

I think your foot trimmer is correct. I would fence off your creek beds. You could use poly wire. I know you must cross the creek beds to access pastures but you could fence off the creek in all other areas.

I don't believe it is mineral. I use the exact same mineral regiment that you do. I have ZERO foot issues and our cows are very similar in size and pedigree.

You probably covered this in the posts but you do not have concrete areas where there are rocks tracked onto the concrete? That really is a bad deal. Sorry that you have the issues.


Ebenezer, Fire Sweep does not have any concrete areas where the cows are pastured or worked, so NO to your question - there are no concrete areas where cows track rocks upon to. Yes, that would be a bad situation.

The parent bedrock there is almost 100 % chert. It fractures and accumulates on the surface. It is like walking on broken glass. I have set some fence post for them. It is heck to dig through.
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