Analyze this Hay

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artesianspringsfarm
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Analyze this Hay

Postby artesianspringsfarm » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:30 pm

Texas Bred and others, here's a fun one for you. This is my primary, first cutting hay. Both my cow herd and yearlings will be getting this free choice. Ordinarily, this is ALL the cow herd would get but I'm not happy with the condition we are carrying into the winter and so I'm prepared to supplement a bit, either with some hotter hay or maybe even other options.

A. what sticks out to you on this hay and

B. How would you supplement it for dry cows due in April, feeder steers and/or yearling heifers?

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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby Son of Butch » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:12 pm

Mature grass hay TDN 55 is fine for carrying mature dry cows and maintaining their weight.
Since you are not happy with their BCS supplement with 4 lbs of corn until you are satisfied.

Young 2-3 yrs old cows are still growing and would benefit by including 1 or 2 lbs of 30% protein pellet with the corn.
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby artesianspringsfarm » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:30 pm

Son of Butch wrote:Mature grass hay TDN 55 is fine for carrying mature dry cows and maintaining their weight.
Since you are not happy with their BCS supplement with 4 lbs of corn until you are satisfied.

Young 2-3 yrs old cows are still growing and would benefit by including 1 or 2 lbs of 30% protein pellet with the corn.


Butch, thats kinda my thoughts as well but here's one other factor that caused me to test. I noticed their piles are a lot firmer than I would like to see, not horse crap but also not a pie. Usually they arent quite that firm on this hay. I market my feeders as grass-fed and finished but I can keep them separate and use corn if I must but I think I may just get some 13-15% 2nd cutting alfalfa and mix it in instead. Thoughts on that plan?
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:30 pm

Last I checked corn was a grass and alfalfa was a legume. How much snow do you have there now?
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby Dave » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:24 pm

What jumped out at me was the NDF number is pretty high. This isn't very digestible hay. I would think a little alfalfa to add protein would help this to move through the system.
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby artesianspringsfarm » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:44 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:Last I checked corn was a grass and alfalfa was a legume. How much snow do you have there now?


Listen here, if we wanted your sass, we would have asked for it. :D Only about a foot of snow right now. You missed deer hunting up here in waist deep snow though. Visibility was great but was too deep for the ranger and too fluffy for the snowmobile so the hauling was no fun.
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby artesianspringsfarm » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:49 pm

Dave wrote:What jumped out at me was the NDF number is pretty high. This isn't very digestible hay. I would think a little alfalfa to add protein would help this to move through the system.



Dave, I'm honestly not familiar with how to interpret NDF versus TDN. How do you read that? Also, what little I do know about fiber and about this hay would lead me to say that you are accurate, I just dont know how the NDF numbers show that. This was very late 1st cutting when we were already borderline drought.
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby Son of Butch » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:05 am

You can supplement with alfalfa. Depends on how you're set up to feed and prices, but feeding big bales of alfalfa
free choice when waste is factored can get expensive. It's easier to control intake with a few lbs of grain.
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby SimAngHerf » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:03 am

artesianspringsfarm wrote:
Son of Butch wrote:Mature grass hay TDN 55 is fine for carrying mature dry cows and maintaining their weight.
Since you are not happy with their BCS supplement with 4 lbs of corn until you are satisfied.

Young 2-3 yrs old cows are still growing and would benefit by including 1 or 2 lbs of 30% protein pellet with the corn.


Butch, thats kinda my thoughts as well but here's one other factor that caused me to test. I noticed their piles are a lot firmer than I would like to see, not horse crap but also not a pie. Usually they arent quite that firm on this hay. I market my feeders as grass-fed and finished but I can keep them separate and use corn if I must but I think I may just get some 13-15% 2nd cutting alfalfa and mix it in instead. Thoughts on

I’m certainly not a nutritionist but I believe low levels of protein or high fiber (NDF) will allow the meal to not be digested on time. To fast and the manure will have no consistency and to slow it will stack. Dry & mature cows will need 6.5-8%, low end right after weaning and high end prior to calving. There are other factors as you know but those are generally close. I understand your position in grass fed calves but the extra corn/alfalfa that was recommended by others will help boost TDN and protein which will help the rumen break down the hay better. I try to keep my herds manure like pancake batter.
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby artesianspringsfarm » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:38 am

I appreciate the comments. There definitely will be supplementing this year, looks like I can get some 13-15% protein Alfalfa large squares for about $100 per ton.
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby cjmc » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:07 pm

artesianspringsfarm wrote:
Dave wrote:What jumped out at me was the NDF number is pretty high. This isn't very digestible hay. I would think a little alfalfa to add protein would help this to move through the system.



Dave, I'm honestly not familiar with how to interpret NDF versus TDN. How do you read that? Also, what little I do know about fiber and about this hay would lead me to say that you are accurate, I just dont know how the NDF numbers show that. This was very late 1st cutting when we were already borderline drought.


NDF is a measure of how "woody" a plant is. We use it to predict intake because it causes bulk or gut fill. Typically good alfalfa hay is about 40% NDF. If I were you I wouldn't worry about NDF too much, it's typically not an issue, the equation nutritionists use would say a 1,200 lb cows could eat 24 pounds of this hay. Last note, its 60% TDN hay not 55 always look at the numbers on a dry basis (water is diluting the nutrients on an as fed basis).
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:22 am

Josh - I just sent in samples on mine. Anxious to see my results. We were able to put up nice early June hay as baleage and got some "almost" dry hay put up as baleage for 2nd cut.
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby rawand » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:07 am

Great to see this analyzing...
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:27 pm

I got my results:
All figures are DM
1st cutting F#1 CP 13.1 aNDF 57 TDN 53 %moisture 46.1
1st cutting F#2 CP 15.0 aNDF 58 TDN 58 %moisture 76.8
2nd cutting F#1 CP 13.4 aNDF 61 TDN 57 %moisture 40.3
They are really eating it well. Manure is medium - flattens when hits the ground, but no splatter.
Started with F#1 and the baler broke down so hay was on ground longer than normal. 2nd cutting was trying to put up dry, but weather did not cooperate. F#2 has more clover & ltl alfalfa. We graze 2nd cutting.
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Re: Analyze this Hay

Postby Son of Butch » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:29 pm

Wow, that F#2 must be sopping wet at 76.8% moisture isn't it?
my guess is, in an ideal world it would be best to have it somewhere between 59% and 69% moisture?
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