Worming and resistance issues.

Cattle problems.
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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Lucky » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:58 am

Where do these worms that the cows are getting come from?



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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Redgully » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:07 am

From the cows, they poop them, eat them over and over.

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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:18 am

Lucky wrote:Where do these worms that the cows are getting come from?


Redgully is fundamentally correct. Most parasitic helminths reproduce by shedding eggs in the feces. The eggs are ingested, or go through larval stages in some cases involving an intermediate host or the egg hatches directly into a larval form and the larval stage is ingested by the cow. Each group of parasitic helminths have their own characteristic life cycles.

A generic life cycle:
Cow eats larval form; larval form becomes adult worm in cow; adult worm lays eggs; eggs are expelled in feces; cycle starts over.

The parasitic helminths can be carried into new areas by deer, sheep or other ungulates. There is no such thing as a worm free environment generally speaking.
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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Lucky » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:36 am

So I’ve been worming cows all this time and all I had to do was tell them not to eat stuff off the ground??? Well guess there’s gonna be an all hands on deck conference at the ranch today. :bang:

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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:37 am

Lucky wrote:So I’ve been worming cows all this time and all I had to do was tell them not to eat stuff off the ground??? Well guess there’s gonna be an all hands on deck conference at the ranch today. :bang:


It don't work. I been preaching better hygiene to mine for 10 years. Cows are like toddlers only a little smarter.
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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Lucky » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:39 am

A few weeks ago I had a one on one with #54 about staying off her sore foot. They never listen. I slso talked with the yearlings about the dangers of drinking from mud puddles instead of the 3 pools available to them, once again no cooperation. Oh well, what you gonna do?

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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:50 am

Lucky wrote:A few weeks ago I had a one on one with #54 about staying off her sore foot. They never listen. I slso talked with the yearlings about the dangers of drinking from mud puddles instead of the 3 pools available to them, once again no cooperation. Oh well, what you gonna do?


:lol2:
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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Ebenezer » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:20 am

"Pivotal to the sIPM approach is the concept of refugia, the proportion of a given parasite population that escapes exposure to control measures. By balancing drug applications with the maintenance of refugia, the accumulation of anthelmintic resistance alleles in worm populations can be considerably delayed, while still providing good levels of control. The over-dispersed nature of parasitic infections provides an opportunity to achieve this balance, by targeting treatments to the members of a flock or herd that are least tolerant to nematode infection."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304401706002561

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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:52 am

Thank for posting that Ebenezer. It requires payment to download the article. Here is the entire abstract. Note this research is focused on "small ruminants". I assume goats and sheep. I was hoping to understand how the study was designed. The sIPM is interesting. Right now it is not practical for on the farm implementation as the abstract makes a point to state.

Abstract
Seriously escalating global anthelmintic resistance in gastrointestinal nematodes of small ruminants has spawned a variety of alternatives to anthelmintics for worm management, based on the need for sustainable Integrated Parasite Management (sIPM).

Pivotal to the sIPM approach is the concept of refugia, the proportion of a given parasite population that escapes exposure to control measures. By balancing drug applications with the maintenance of refugia, the accumulation of anthelmintic resistance alleles in worm populations can be considerably delayed, while still providing good levels of control. The over-dispersed nature of parasitic infections provides an opportunity to achieve this balance, by targeting treatments to the members of a flock or herd that are least tolerant to nematode infection. However, implementation of this strategy has only recently become feasible, with the development of the FAMACHA© system for clinical evaluation of anaemia due to haemonchosis. Subsequently, the use of milk yields has proven an effective indicator in dairy goats infected predominantly with nematodes other than Haemonchus contortus. In addition, short-term weight changes and perhaps also body condition scoring may provide indices of parasitism, permitting the rapid identification of animals likely to benefit from treatment.

However, sIPM and refugia-based approaches are more complex than whole-flock treatments in conventional programs, and adoption by farmers is most likely where the theoretical basis is understood. As close communication with informed advisors is generally limited, there is a danger that sIPM will remain a theoretical concept without alternative modes of communication. The development of computer-based decision support programs, which use epidemiological, seasonal and clinical information to provide recommendations for specific situations, should be accorded high priority in the future development of worm management systems.
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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Ebenezer » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:27 pm

FAMACHA has been around for 15 or more years and widely used in the USA and easily learned. FECs are a part of the EBV system for NSIP. AS you know, that is an older technique than FAMACHA. So, yes the beef industry is behind the times and lagging behind the sheep and goat industries. But even some beef producers see the validity of strategic worming. And many beef folks know that the problem exists.

https://www.progressivecattle.com/topics/herd-health/resistance-of-gastrointestinal-worms-to-anthelmintics

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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:37 pm

The effort to target the less tolerant members of a cow herd for treatment rather then simply treating the entire herd is not explained. I assume you determine that by fecal samples. I like the concept but is the "juice worth the squeeze"? In your sheep herd, what criteria do you use to identify the sheep that are less tolerant of hosting a worm population?
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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Ebenezer » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:27 pm

Bright Raven wrote:The effort to target the less tolerant members of a cow herd for treatment rather then simply treating the entire herd is not explained. I assume you determine that by fecal samples. I like the concept but is the "juice worth the squeeze"? In your sheep herd, what criteria do you use to identify the sheep that are less tolerant of hosting a worm population?

Have done FEC and have culled more on signs. Current breeders are 5 or so generations of no wormer needed. Problem with symptom culling in summer slump and other low periods is that you can retain resilience with resistance. FAMACHA never identified anything less than a 3 here so I quit that. Culling of symptomatic sheep, parents and those close in that line has worked wonders.

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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Lucky » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:23 pm

Lots of big words being thrown around. Maybe ddd75 is right, if a cow gets worms she is inferior and should be culled.....or just spend the $3 and forget about it. It’s the big decisions that make the cow/calf operation so tough. In all seriousness worms could be a regional thing like lots of problems. I would expect it to be a stocking rate issue but some folks on here run 1/1 with no worm problems so maybe not. I’m buying a microscope and going to work on this. What about horn flys, anybody got a solution????

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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:47 am

Stocking rate and rotational grazing does make a difference.
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Re: Worming and resistance issues.

Post by Ebenezer » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:43 am

"or just spend the $3 and forget about it" but how do you know it is still doing anything good for you? What if every $3 treatment is only doing $1 worth of good? Plus labor.

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