Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Bestoutwest » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:17 am

I really like all the advice previously given here. I have a 3 M/O heifer that is 3/4 Angus, 1/4 LH that looks just like this. If it were me, I wouldn't use this guy to breed with. There are enough good, local breeders that will sell you a good young bull that I'd cut him, sell him and buy from someone that can show you what this guy's out of.
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:14 pm

Yes, by far, this is not a poor steer. Just not a good bull. Big difference. Out of 20-25 bulls, I only leave "maybe" 4 or 5 as bulls.
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:27 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Yes, by far, this is not a poor steer. Just not a good bull. Big difference. Out of 20-25 bulls, I only leave "maybe" 4 or 5 as bulls.

And you know who's who and what's what about the calfs background.
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby ALACOWMAN » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:28 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Yes, by far, this is not a poor steer. Just not a good bull. Big difference. Out of 20-25 bulls, I only leave "maybe" 4 or 5 as bulls.

You cull a lot harder than most,,some of those culled out,would probably do a good job in someone's commercial herd....just from where I stand,
and what Ive seen..I can't imagine you having that many to cull...
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:19 pm

I am ruthless on cutting the bull calves. First, I do not believe just because it has a good pedigree and a set of nuts, it should breed anyone's cows. Yes, most of my males would probably be an improvement for a herd (that's being a bit smug on my part!) - but, if I left them all (or most) bulls, they would be a dime a dozen priced. Keep the offering small & get what they are worth. Not that I sell bull for big bucks. Most of my bulls are sold as calves nursing the dam. People pick them out, put down a deposit & get them after weaning/pre-conditioning. If they pick them out before June 1, they are the cheapest.
Just sold my fall bull calf that we are going to show for $3000 today. Not a lot of money, but we will show him all season & they will take him in the fall.
Plus - not a very big market for bulls here in NY. I'm doing well to sell 3-5 each year. Could sell more for less money, but why? Biggest risk factor as a PB breeder who guarantees their cattle.
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Stocker Steve » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:15 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Yes, by far, this is not a poor steer. Just not a good bull. Big difference. Out of 20-25 bulls, I only leave "maybe" 4 or 5 as bulls.


Do you do any DNA testing?
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:41 am

Well - yes and no. Normally, I do not.
ASA is offering a super cheap price to breeders if they commit to do their whole herd, with an additional discount if you supply weights, and or frame score, and or BCS. Well, I do weights, FS & BCS anyway, so it was a no brainer to do it.
I just got the Parentage DNA Report yesterday, but this was a full 50K DNA and I had them test for Homo Black & Homo polled on a couple. This test is like knowing "15 CE scores", 20 BWs, 22 WWs, and 25 Stay records" on each of my own cows for their EPD's. Cost $15/hd
Interesting, out of 50 head, only 1 did not DNA back to the sire. It was a purchased animal. ASA checked all the sires used by the other farm the year she was born and came up with her matched sire. But, all of mine were accurate - woohoo!
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Stocker Steve » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:51 am

Were any animals culled or retained due to the DNA tests?
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Brute 23 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:22 am

Spend the money and get some thing with some history behind it. You won't regret it.
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:34 am

Stocker Steve wrote:Were any animals culled or retained due to the DNA tests?

Absolutely NOT. DNA is a TOOL - not the Holy Grail!!! I have not seen how much they have or have not affected my cows EPD's, but that still won't make any difference as far as cull/keep on this farm. I use EPD's as a tool, nothing more.
Interested in why you would ask this?
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby True Grit Farms » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:52 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Stocker Steve wrote:Were any animals culled or retained due to the DNA tests?

Absolutely NOT. DNA is a TOOL - not the Holy Grail!!! I have not seen how much they have or have not affected my cows EPD's, but that still won't make any difference as far as cull/keep on this farm. I use EPD's as a tool, nothing more.
Interested in why you would ask this?

A lot of Angus herds had genetic defects once DNA samples became the normal. You never know what's in the wood pile using paper.
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Son of Butch » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:16 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Stocker Steve wrote:Were any animals culled or retained due to the DNA tests?

Absolutely NOT. DNA is a TOOL - not the Holy Grail!!! I have not seen how much they have or have not affected my cows EPD's, but that still won't make any difference as far as cull/keep on this farm. I use EPD's as a tool, nothing more.
Interested in why you would ask this?

A lot of Angus herds had genetic defects once DNA samples became the normal.

And without DNA testing those genetic defects would have continued to spread.

Holsteins are another example that you can't reveal genetic defects by looking at phenotype.
Others have No Genetic Defects because the defect has yet to be identified or they have never been tested and
so they stay in the breeding population.
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:46 am

Luckily, ASA has stayed on top of that problem. SO FAR, we do not have any known major defects "in our breed". All cattle that use a dam or sire of a different breed for upgrading, must be Genetic Defect tested. They will register the animal, if tested positive, with genetic defect listed on the papers. I'm old fashion, I would prefer not being able to register a carrier, but it isn't hidden. No one can sell an animal without the buyer knowing. Even if you don't SEE the papers, all you have to do is look it up on your phone or computer.
I say no "major" defects, because I know we do have a "wild eye" defect. The calf's eye looks more blue, kind of glass eyed. Does not affect their vision - I believe Shock Force has it.
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:42 pm

M wife says I have a wild eye.
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Re: Three month old bull,,, thoughts?

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:11 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:M wife says I have a wild eye.

I definitely think it is a different meaning. :banana:
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