tagging and tattooing calves

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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:41 pm

I should have known. It was written by Kit Pharo.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby dun » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:49 pm

When we tattoo we only do the heifers that will be kept or sold as breeders and any bulls that are retained.
Steers get nothing, registered heifers and bulls get tattooed with individual ID and herd ID. Commercial heifers only get the individual ID tattoo.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby Bullitt » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:11 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I should have known. It was written by Kit Pharo.


Is he a bad guy or something?

Well, don't shoot the messenger. What is wrong with the idea that tagging at birth is not needed for commercial cattle producers?
Last edited by Bullitt on Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby ALACOWMAN » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:02 pm

cowgirl8 wrote:We don't do any of it until we're sure we want to keep them.

If I dont keep em I cut em out, right before I load them...
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby ALACOWMAN » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:11 pm

Bullitt wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I should have known. It was written by Kit Pharo.


Is he a bad guy or something?

Well, don't shoot the messenger. What is wrong with the ides that tagging at birth is not needed for commercial cattle producers?
I think the messenger needs a little more time in the saddle....
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby TCRanch » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:52 pm

Bullitt wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I should have known. It was written by Kit Pharo.


Is he a bad guy or something?

Well, don't shoot the messenger. What is wrong with the ides that tagging at birth is not needed for commercial cattle producers?

The idea is not wrong. It's whatever works for each individual operation. My operation is substantially smaller than what Mr Pharo referenced but I prefer to tag, etc day 1, day 2 at the latest. Yes, there's always a chance of an encounter with an angry mama, even with selective culling. But popping in a First Defense bolus, spraying the umbilicle cord & tagging a calf takes a couple minutes. I suggest waiting until she's completely licked it off, it's nursed and both cow/calf are now bonded & relaxing. I keep diligent records of all my cattle (including calves) so it's important for me to know exactly which calf belongs to which cow.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby cowgirl8 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:36 pm

ALACOWMAN wrote:
Bullitt wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I should have known. It was written by Kit Pharo.


Is he a bad guy or something?

Well, don't shoot the messenger. What is wrong with the ides that tagging at birth is not needed for commercial cattle producers?
I think the messenger needs a little more time in the saddle....

We don't tag at birth, never needed to. We'll tag a calf if there we need to keep an eye on it, like its a twin, or its been sick. I've never seen the need to tag the calf.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby bball » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:37 pm

TCRanch wrote:
Bullitt wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I should have known. It was written by Kit Pharo.


Is he a bad guy or something?

Well, don't shoot the messenger. What is wrong with the ides that tagging at birth is not needed for commercial cattle producers?

The idea is not wrong. It's whatever works for each individual operation. My operation is substantially smaller than what Mr Pharo referenced but I prefer to tag, etc day 1, day 2 at the latest. Yes, there's always a chance of an encounter with an angry mama, even with selective culling. But popping in a First Defense bolus, spraying the umbilicle cord & tagging a calf takes a couple minutes. I suggest waiting until she's completely licked it off, it's nursed and both cow/calf are now bonded & relaxing. I keep diligent records of all my cattle (including calves) so it's important for me to know exactly which calf belongs to which cow.


Well stated TC. Some of us small timers like to actually track productivity, efficiency of cows. Ear tagging calfs early and weighing at weaning is just one way to help determine which cows produce the calves with best ADG, and AD$. Which are 2 things, as a small timer, I find very important to know and utilize during culling, and overall herd improvement. Ear tagging is just one small tool(inexpensive) that makes life easier for this one man outfit and helps with accurate record keeping.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby Bullitt » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:01 pm

ALACOWMAN wrote:
Bullitt wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:I should have known. It was written by Kit Pharo.


Is he a bad guy or something?

Well, don't shoot the messenger. What is wrong with the ides that tagging at birth is not needed for commercial cattle producers?
I think the messenger needs a little more time in the saddle....


So you shoot the messenger? Why does Kit Pharo "need more time in the saddle," cowboy? I understand he is a rancher in Colorado.

Yeah, I know you were talking about me. But you do not know a thing about me.

There is no need for commercial cattle producers to ear tag calves at birth. It is a lot of extra work and serves little purpose. The ear tagging can be done when calves are worked, which makes things easier and more efficient.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:23 pm

Why bother tagging when you work them? You don't know who the dam is, so why would you want to know who the calf is?? Despite Mr Pharo's long thought out article, some cattle people really like to know which cow raises what calf - even the commercial guy.
And, can you imagine a producer would waste his time to check his calving cows twice a day. :shock: What a waste of time. He should be fixing fences.
A steer calf is worth maybe $1000 after weaned & preconditioned. Hmmm, that seems like that would pay for finding one cow in dystocia and you actually saved the calf (while you should have been fixing fence). There are many calves born, owner finds it DOA. Many are because the calf comes backwards and the cow needed assistance.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby Bullitt » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:37 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Why bother tagging when you work them? You don't know who the dam is, so why would you want to know who the calf is?? Despite Mr Pharo's long thought out article, some cattle people really like to know which cow raises what calf - even the commercial guy.
And, can you imagine a producer would waste his time to check his calving cows twice a day. :shock: What a waste of time. He should be fixing fences.
A steer calf is worth maybe $1000 after weaned & preconditioned. Hmmm, that seems like that would pay for finding one cow in dystocia and you actually saved the calf (while you should have been fixing fence). There are many calves born, owner finds it DOA. Many are because the calf comes backwards and the cow needed assistance.



You make many good points, Jeanne.

To your first point. If you are working calves when they are a couple of months old, you know who the dam is because the calf is nursing on its momma.

If calves dying at birth is a common thing in a herd, then maybe a change is needed?

I can see both sides. If a person has a small herd it may not be that much work to tag calves at birth. But a large operation would have difficulty with tagging calves at birth.

As someone said, each person should do what works for him or her.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby Silver » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:42 pm

Bullitt wrote:Here is an article that explains that few cattle producers need to tag ears at birth. He also explains that it reduces profits by focusing on the wrong things.

https://onpasture.com/2016/06/06/dont-e ... rn-calves/

A registered seed-stock breeder may need birth weight information at calving time. Commercial cattle producers do not need that information.


This article is a total bunch of crap, IMHO
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby dun » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:47 pm

Bullitt wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Why bother tagging when you work them? You don't know who the dam is, so why would you want to know who the calf is?? Despite Mr Pharo's long thought out article, some cattle people really like to know which cow raises what calf - even the commercial guy.
And, can you imagine a producer would waste his time to check his calving cows twice a day. :shock: What a waste of time. He should be fixing fences.
A steer calf is worth maybe $1000 after weaned & preconditioned. Hmmm, that seems like that would pay for finding one cow in dystocia and you actually saved the calf (while you should have been fixing fence). There are many calves born, owner finds it DOA. Many are because the calf comes backwards and the cow needed assistance.



You make many good points, Jeanne.

To your first point. If you are working calves when they are a couple of months old, you know who the dam is because the calf is nursing on its momma.

If calves dying at birth is a common thing in a herd, then maybe a change is needed?

I can see both sides. If a person has a small herd it may not be that much work to tag calves at birth. But a large operation would have difficulty with tagging calves at birth.

As someone said, each person should do what works for him or her.

There are a number of Red Angus herds that run multiple hundreds of cows and they seem to find the time to weigh and tag each calf.
Yuo can;t manage what you don;t measure.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby Farmgirl » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:21 am

You have been doing just fine without ear tags at birth, so why do you want to do it now?


Question was not about tagging at birth. Question was about tagging young calves. Have a need to sort off a cow and calf from the others. All are black. Frequently do chores after dark. Didn't need a lecture on how to care for my herd.

Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback.
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Re: tagging and tattooing calves

Postby TCRanch » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:17 am

Bullitt wrote:
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:Why bother tagging when you work them? You don't know who the dam is, so why would you want to know who the calf is?? Despite Mr Pharo's long thought out article, some cattle people really like to know which cow raises what calf - even the commercial guy.
And, can you imagine a producer would waste his time to check his calving cows twice a day. :shock: What a waste of time. He should be fixing fences.
A steer calf is worth maybe $1000 after weaned & preconditioned. Hmmm, that seems like that would pay for finding one cow in dystocia and you actually saved the calf (while you should have been fixing fence). There are many calves born, owner finds it DOA. Many are because the calf comes backwards and the cow needed assistance.



You make many good points, Jeanne.

To your first point. If you are working calves when they are a couple of months old, you know who the dam is because the calf is nursing on its momma.

If calves dying at birth is a common thing in a herd, then maybe a change is needed?

I can see both sides. If a person has a small herd it may not be that much work to tag calves at birth. But a large operation would have difficulty with tagging calves at birth.

As someone said, each person should do what works for him or her.

Yes, I know which calf belongs to which mama in the pasture. But not when we're working them. We round up the herd, separate the cows from the calves, run the cows through the chute first and then work the calves. It just makes it easier for me & my crew, not comingling the shots, etc.

One thing Mr. Pharo didn't address: I suspect I'm not the only one that has neighbors sharing a fence line (or "neighbors", which would include a 5 mile radius). And our neighbors to the north have the worst fence ever. If I have a calf in someone else' pasture (or cow, bull and vise versa) I want to have no reservations about claiming it as mine.
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