God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by sim.-ang.king » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:36 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:20 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:19 am
Saw a quote I really liked today, it applies here.

“I need some new haters because the old ones are beginning to like me” Grant Cardone

So true!

If you can’t afford an $80 straw of semen to improve your program, you ain’t got a “program”
You are assuming America can improve someone's herd. I assume America might be able to improve my herd. He'll show up at different bull evaluation test in a couple of years. Then we'll know if he's really a good bull for the commercial cattleman. SAV does very well at most of the bull evaluation tests. The only downside to SAV bulls that I've noticed is when feed intake is figured into the equation. SAV doesn't have very good feed to beef conversion ratios. Midland and Clemson bull test keep tract on how much a bull eats and how long the bull has his head stuck in a feed trough. This is very important to most of us that don't show or sell bulls.
The last feed test at SIU Carbondale, and so far in this years test, the old SAV bulls had a better avg F/G. SAV Bismark's sons had the best of SAV bulls, Sensation had the worst avg. They very well may have regressed in 10 years on F/G chasing that high WW.
Waiting to see more results.


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Did anyone apologize for making me one?

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Silver wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:15 pm
You're not getting it Brookhill. You are all caught up in the emotion, commotion and promotion. You are forgetting that these bulls reason for being is to produce beef that ends up on the hook. You need to understand that there are plenty of options for astute commercial breeders to attain cattle that are profitable. A high priced highly promoted bull is possibly a way, but is certainly not the only way. I think you need to get out and tour around a bit. Come up here and I can show you herds of commercial cattle that will open your eyes to a whole reality that you don't seem to know exists.
I get it Silver.

I'm all caught up in that PEDIGREE my friend, and what it can do for my operation.

Touring other operations is always important, when you think that you cannot learn anything, disaster usually strikes. However, SAV does run a big operation, and America is their best effort. I can get that best effort for $80 bucks. THAT's PEANUTS my friend. I could sell 50 America daughters in a blink of an eye at a premium right now if I had them to offer, I can't say that for 50 no name heifers. Selling is the name of the game, if you don't sell, what are you doing in the business?

I have a lot of other names in my herd that have never been mentioned here and that are NOT SAV. I just happen to like what SAV is doing the best.

As for real world cattle, ask anyone in Kentucky right now if their cattle are taking a BEATING and they will surely tell you yes. Our cattle are sitting out in deep mud, eating hay like crazy to stay warm, soaked for days on end, sometimes a week or more, with no let up, and temps in the low 30's I would be ecstatic if it were to go to 0 degrees and sunny, I would think we were finally getting relief. The weather we are dealing with right now is testing the Kentucky herd (all breeds) as they have probably not been tested before. I can only speak for my cattle, which are holding up like champs, they take anything that is thrown at them, they deal and adapt.

I guess that I have somehow painted a picture that our cattle live in a barn with a foot of straw and a pink bandana around their necks, with their own Youtube channel, that's not the case my friend, they get the crap beat out of them day in and day out, just like everyone else's cattle here in the Commonwealth, only difference is that I make sure they have good nutrition to deal with it, can't say that for some other producers here who are now feeding moldy hay to keep them alive.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:53 pm

Ebenezer wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:33 pm
I'm pretty sure that when Conan of Wye was at his height of popularity that people said, "this is as good as it gets folks"
You keep mentioning this bull. Tell us about the daughters. And tell us why he became unpopular. Is he a true icon or a barn legend? How did he prove out?
Ebenezer, you miss the point, Conan worked for that time, Wye did very well off of him and life moved on. I won't go back and discuss the merits of a truck I owned in the 70's and how it compares to a new model, yes they were both made out of metal, but they are two entirely different things.

With all due respect, you are myopic on many issues, I've been in sales all my life, and was trained by some of the best, and from what I can tell you would be the salesman that would talk himself out of a sale every time, explaining in painful detail how one part of a widget, may or may not have been produced to your exacting standards, and hence you have your doubts on it's performance. I worked beside a guy once, and I would listen to him go on and on about the product he was trying to sell, going off on many different tangents until the potential buyer said "gotta go" He didn't last, he couldn't sell. Don't begrudge Kelly at SAV because he knows how to sell, that is a survival instinct in this world, and he has it down pat.

Even James Lingle would have told you to sh..t or get off the pot. He took chances, he made decisions without having every fact in front of him, and it worked out for Wye. You have paralysis by analysis.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Bestoutwest » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:01 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:18 pm
Herbster should be applauded for what he did. You guys don't have a clue what this does for the U.S. cattle market in general. It makes sure that we are still the top dog in genetics worldwide. The news of this sale will spread worldwide on Monday, and orders from other countries will be rolling in for U.S. based genetics.
You're right, I don't know what this does for the industry. No one does. But my cynical crystal ball says it winds up a bit like the 2008 housing bubble. You know who really makes money on a deal like this? 3 people: Schaff, the semen company taking a cut and the auction house b/c they get a cut. Us little guys? Yeah, it might help the Angus industry a little bit, but it might also push some other folks out b/c they don't feel like they can swim in the ocean with such big fish, or they feel like it's a rigged game (I'm not suggesting it is, but I can see how it might be misconstrued that way).

And before you suggest it, no, I'm not jealous. I know how hard these folks must work and the financial risks that they have to take to get here. I'm the kind of person that could take those big leaps of such high cliffs. Because for every guy that wins big, there's hundreds that fail big.

Finally, with such gigantic weaning weights ( usually 1.5X to close to 2X the national average) and so many straws sold, I wonder why no one else is seeing the same results with their calves. It's an interesting question for me.
For the great things are not done by impulse, but by a series of small things brought together. ~Vincent van Gogh
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.-Julius Caesar

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Bright Raven » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:06 pm

This thread is not going to end with any sort of agreeable conclusion. Almost like the congressional debate on border security. :deadhorse:

But one thing is as sure as the sunrise! Brookhill is the master of long running threads and probably has generated more "hits" for the short time he has been here than any User in history.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Silver » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:08 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:39 pm

I get it Silver.

I'm all caught up in that PEDIGREE my friend, and what it can do for my operation.
Well, continue selling Amway then, and do what you do. I have a commercial herd to run, it's not black, it is profitable, it has a reputation that does not require me to brag about it in an attempt to improve that reputation, and does not require "fixing" by overly priced and highly promoted semen. Good luck schilling for the SAV boys.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Silver » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:12 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:06 pm
This thread is not going to end with any sort of agreeable conclusion. Almost like the congressional debate on border security. :deadhorse:

But one thing is as sure as the sunrise! Brookhill is the master of long running threads and probably has generated more "hits" for the short time he has been here than any User in history.
I think many of us are just in shock that one could drink so much Koolaid and be so sure they are ahead of the curve that it elicits a stronger reaction than it perhaps deserves.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Bestoutwest » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:19 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:56 pm
This is especially true of Auctions - whether the merchandise is cattle, Art, Antiques or Used Cars. ANY kind of conspiracy or collusion to affect the final selling price is PRICE FIXING. And it is a felony involving prison time and extreme fines. It is not limited to cattle sales. It occurs in auctions regardless of the merchandise. The challenge is proving it!
This is why I don't buy at auctions. AGAIN, I'm not saying this was a fixed sale. But when I'm bidding against a phone bidder that I can't see, and the price keeps going up and up and up and up, I get leery. Plus, I'm so small, that I don't know who anyone is. Heck, I could go to the Schaff sale and bid against his wife and have no clue. I'm a private treaty kind of guy. A lot less pressure, less yelling, and I get to see the cattle in a different light.
For the great things are not done by impulse, but by a series of small things brought together. ~Vincent van Gogh
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.-Julius Caesar

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Bright Raven » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:20 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:39 pm

As for real world cattle, ask anyone in Kentucky right now if their cattle are taking a BEATING and they will surely tell you yes. Our cattle are sitting out in deep mud, eating hay like crazy to stay warm, soaked for days on end, sometimes a week or more, with no let up, and temps in the low 30's I would be ecstatic if it were to go to 0 degrees and sunny, I would think we were finally getting relief. The weather we are dealing with right now is testing the Kentucky herd (all breeds) as they have probably not been tested before. I can only speak for my cattle, which are holding up like champs, they take anything that is thrown at them, they deal and adapt.
This is worth repeating. Not once, but 10 times!

I haven't prayed since I was 10 years old but I am starting to give it serious consideration. Our weather is AWFUL. We are 11 days into February and are setting up for another record monthly precipitation.

It hurts me to see the cows constantly wet. No dry spot to lay down. This has to end or I am finding another vocation!
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Bright Raven » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:38 pm

Silver wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:12 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:06 pm
This thread is not going to end with any sort of agreeable conclusion. Almost like the congressional debate on border security. :deadhorse:

But one thing is as sure as the sunrise! Brookhill is the master of long running threads and probably has generated more "hits" for the short time he has been here than any User in history.
I think many of us are just in shock that one could drink so much Koolaid and be so sure they are ahead of the curve that it elicits a stronger reaction than it perhaps deserves.
I appreciate what all the commercial cattle producers are expressing on this thread. What I see being missed is this:

For seedstock producers, the market is more influenced by glamour, passion for "racey" cattle, pedigrees and name recognition. You can express that as "promotion and commotion" and be totally fair in doing so but Brookhill has a point that I tend to agree with because I see it as running deep in the seedstock industry - NAME RECOGNITION SELLS.
Last edited by Bright Raven on Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Lazy M » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:38 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:20 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:39 pm

As for real world cattle, ask anyone in Kentucky right now if their cattle are taking a BEATING and they will surely tell you yes. Our cattle are sitting out in deep mud, eating hay like crazy to stay warm, soaked for days on end, sometimes a week or more, with no let up, and temps in the low 30's I would be ecstatic if it were to go to 0 degrees and sunny, I would think we were finally getting relief. The weather we are dealing with right now is testing the Kentucky herd (all breeds) as they have probably not been tested before. I can only speak for my cattle, which are holding up like champs, they take anything that is thrown at them, they deal and adapt.
This is worth repeating. Not once, but 10 times!

I haven't prayed since I was 10 years old but I am starting to give it serious consideration. Our weather is AWFUL. We are 11 days into February and are setting up for another record monthly precipitation.

It hurts me to see the cows constantly wet. No dry spot to lay down. This has to end or I am finding another vocation!
Group of heifers just started calving yesterday. I'd like to start unrolling hay for this group to give them a somewhat clean and dry place to lay down but I'm afraid I'll just create more mess by driving the tractor out..
Image
Hickock sired calves.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Bright Raven » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:44 pm

Lazy M wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:38 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:20 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:39 pm

As for real world cattle, ask anyone in Kentucky right now if their cattle are taking a BEATING and they will surely tell you yes. Our cattle are sitting out in deep mud, eating hay like crazy to stay warm, soaked for days on end, sometimes a week or more, with no let up, and temps in the low 30's I would be ecstatic if it were to go to 0 degrees and sunny, I would think we were finally getting relief. The weather we are dealing with right now is testing the Kentucky herd (all breeds) as they have probably not been tested before. I can only speak for my cattle, which are holding up like champs, they take anything that is thrown at them, they deal and adapt.
This is worth repeating. Not once, but 10 times!

I haven't prayed since I was 10 years old but I am starting to give it serious consideration. Our weather is AWFUL. We are 11 days into February and are setting up for another record monthly precipitation.

It hurts me to see the cows constantly wet. No dry spot to lay down. This has to end or I am finding another vocation!
Group of heifers just started calving yesterday. I'd like to start unrolling hay for this group to give them a somewhat clean and dry place to lay down but I'm afraid I'll just create more mess by driving the tractor out..
Image
Hickock sired calves.
They don't get a break. I would love to see a freeze up if we would just get some sunshine. It really sucks.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by NEFarmwife » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:55 pm

Silver wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:12 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:06 pm
This thread is not going to end with any sort of agreeable conclusion. Almost like the congressional debate on border security. :deadhorse:

But one thing is as sure as the sunrise! Brookhill is the master of long running threads and probably has generated more "hits" for the short time he has been here than any User in history.
I think many of us are just in shock that one could drink so much Koolaid and be so sure they are ahead of the curve that it elicits a stronger reaction than it perhaps deserves.
And be selling his “elite” PB bulls on a cattle listing for $200 over what we get on average for our commercials.

It humors me to see one tout excellence in a program he didn’t build. A program that he thinks piggybacking off another’s success, is going to garnish him a reputation his ego already believes he has.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by gcreekrch » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:16 pm

Mr. Brookhill Angus, you may have purebred cattle but your posts remind me of a cross between the singing frog and Foghorn Leghorn that once graced the Bugs Bunny hour.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:52 pm

Lazy M wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:38 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:20 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Group of heifers just started calving yesterday. I'd like to start unrolling hay for this group to give them a somewhat clean and dry place to lay down but I'm afraid I'll just create more mess by driving the tractor out..
Image
Hickock sired calves.
Those are tough conditions, I have calves on the way and if these conditions don’t test them, I don’t know what will. Hang in there!
"When someone tells you it can't be done, it's more a reflection of their limitations, not yours"

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