God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Till-Hill » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:03 am

Hunter wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 am
How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?
Long time on the good ones, higher demand more semen! There's been dairy bulls in high demand that have produced 2.1 million straws without googling it if I remember right. No doubt Herbsters can make their money back. Most beef bulls dont make that many units as they want them back to clean up cows. Now this bull maybe wont!



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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by gcreekrch » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:05 am

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:56 pm
gcreekrch wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:11 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:14 pm


Talk is cheap, results are the only thing that matters.
You said it, I didn't.

My results work well for me, I even use my own, home raised bulls. In 2017, I held the title of the highest priced feeder calves in North America for the months from June to late October. Would you refer to those as results?

I am very happy that the dollars are working for you, using all someone else's genetics. For myself, the almighty dollar isn't as important.
Now we are getting somewhere.

Can you post the registration numbers of your bulls, if registered, or some DNA data so we can all see how you pulled that off, unless it’s a secret? What is the general pedigree or make up of your females?

What you accomplished is impressive, something to be proud of. You could help a lot of people on here if you were to share more about how you did it, again, unless it’s a secret.

One last question, do you feel that if you were to use a bull such as SAV America or even a bull such as Sydgen Enhance that you would set your program back?
Interesting, I typed a long response to this last night and it is not here. Will see if I am inspired to write another this evening.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by sim.-ang.king » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:13 am

All this discussion over a bull that can barely walk...
Good luck finding a video of him walking out on pasture.

But the bull of month club members could care less, since numbers and names is all that matters.
Why should I apologize for becoming a monster?
Did anyone apologize for making me one?

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Bestoutwest » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:14 am

NEFarmwife wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:51 pm
Called it. 5000 units pre-sold and likely won’t be able to handle the demand but consider President. Can’t blame them, tough to collect so much semen on a young bull.
How much of that is the breeder "buying" their own straws to create demand? I remember seeing ads in the cutting horse magazine for studs. They would thank the buyers. A two page ad filled with names, and if you read through all the names of the places that purchased a breeding, you would notice that some would be brazen enough to list themselves for their mares they were breeding to that stud. When you add 30 breedings of your own horses, it really makes that ~100 look pretty good.

Maybe I'm too cynical. Maybe I'm not cynical enough. Who knows. But one thing that I've learned in life is that there are some folks that will do anything for that almighty dollar.
For the great things are not done by impulse, but by a series of small things brought together. ~Vincent van Gogh
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.-Julius Caesar

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Ky hills » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:44 am

I think this has been a very interesting, informative and as well irritating discussion. Tempers have flared as comparisons made. I think that as Raven stated there is a disconnect between some registered and commercial outfits. It's unfair to compare management of either against the other, different goals that seem antagonistic yet ultimately should work out to an eventual symbiotic relationship of sorts. A commercial producer has to watch their bottom line close with expenses on the rise and cattle prices ever changing yet seldom rising to a level of comfort. Doesn't mean they aren't doing it right or perpetuating poor management practices. I have seen quite a change in management across the board in my 44 years. Commercial producers are doing more with less in accordance in return than ever before. The few incentives are sometimes not really worth the extra labor and expense.
Registered producers are in a business that relies on pomp and circumstance as a mainstay of advertising and promotion. I used to utilize AI in my registered herd. Had calves one year by a bull that had sold half interest for $75,000, one for $50,000, one for 35,000 that had won an Alabama bull test and maybe set a record I don't remember all the details that was back in the early 90's. That was a real good calf crop, sold them for an average of $1000, was hoping for more but the tide was turning then and demand was low. I get some satisfaction in that a cousin and a friend each got one and both Bulls ended staying in their herds for several years. I believe my cousin used his bull for 7 years. I always bred cattle with the commercial breeder in mind because that was my customer base. Today no one will likely ever have heard of any of those Bulls except for perhaps folks involved during that time period. The goal post keeps moving.
If I were a registered Angus breeder of any size, I would likely try to use this young SAV bull at least on a small number as I believe the calves will be in demand in those circles for at least a time. With new ones coming one frequently attention shifts to the next quickly. Some as they are proven to be something special will maintain a level of market acceptance for several years.
From a commercial standpoint which is where I am now, I would not use that bull simply because of price. I have AI bred almost our whole herd 4 years ago to PA Power Tool and Stevensons Rockmount. And kept a registered son of both Bulls, still have the PowerTool, he is out of an Image Maker X Nichols Extra H6 daughter. His calves are some very nice fast growing calves, so I would consider him to be a definite herd improver for us. I have also used Hoover Dam, on some registered and commercial cows and heifers. I feel 20$ a straw is going to get some real good Bulls for commercial or purebred/registered AI. To that point I also see nothing wrong with using good quality home raised Bulls. They are not always inferior, and are usually well suited for their environments and management. This home raised Power Tool bull is putting some nice calves on the ground, time will tell for maternal quality.
Last edited by Ky hills on Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by W.B. » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:52 am

Hunter wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 am
How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?
That really depends. As an Example SAV Resource is about 9 yrs. old and still going strong and has over 10,000 registered progeny. A full brother SAV Recharge was done at 4 yrs of age. The really good one last until their early teens but most are unsaleable after about 5-6 yrs of age because something newer and better came along.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Hunter » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:00 am

Thanks for the responses. I was just trying to gage how many straws they would need to sell to make a profit.

Maybe in the future I will have time to learn how to A.I. myself as I think there are advantages to doing it.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by NEFarmwife » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:03 am

Bestoutwest wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:14 am
NEFarmwife wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:51 pm
Called it. 5000 units pre-sold and likely won’t be able to handle the demand but consider President. Can’t blame them, tough to collect so much semen on a young bull.
How much of that is the breeder "buying" their own straws to create demand? I remember seeing ads in the cutting horse magazine for studs. They would thank the buyers. A two page ad filled with names, and if you read through all the names of the places that purchased a breeding, you would notice that some would be brazen enough to list themselves for their mares they were breeding to that stud. When you add 30 breedings of your own horses, it really makes that ~100 look pretty good.

Maybe I'm too cynical. Maybe I'm not cynical enough. Who knows. But one thing that I've learned in life is that there are some folks that will do anything for that almighty dollar.
Sure of it. I am certain with the buzz before sale, he was pre-ordered in great quantities but I am sure a good portion was of the owner. They did well in promoting him.

And for those whom did pre-order... how many won't follow thru because of the price?

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by jscunn » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:34 am

23,453 straws of semen must be sold @ $80 to recoop the purchase price. Not figuring AI certs just semen. If he comes close to that number the certs will certainly put him over the top.. Also not considering collection cost (could be free), feed, water, minerals, advertising, etc.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:51 am

wbvs58 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:25 am
I think threads like this are very educational. It has drawn out peoples views on how they select animals, what they desire and look for and dug that bit deeper than what is just normally said. Yes there are differing views and a few bum fights but it has woken a lot up. Yes, it has put some to sleep as well, those that have very little interest in the seedstock industry, I haven't seen the likes of Fence comment too much but overall to me very interesting.

Ken
How could a cattle forum not discuss the high selling bull of all time??? Kudos to Brookhill for initiating this thread.

And if Brookhill is Brash - IMO, there are others who let their sensitivity to his brashness cause them to make personal attacks. I am not sure who wears the more distasteful mantle.

:cboy:
Last edited by Bright Raven on Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by ALACOWMAN » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:53 am

W.B. wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:52 am
Hunter wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 am
How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?
That really depends. As an Example SAV Resource is about 9 yrs. old and still going strong and has over 10,000 registered progeny. A full brother SAV Recharge was done at 4 yrs of age. The really good one last until their early teens but most are unsaleable after about 5-6 yrs of age because something newer and better came along.
I wonder how many are actually done?? are do they do that when sales lull, to recreate demand..jack up the prices on a limited number of units..course if they are finished at a early age and you have retained heifers, might give a feller a sinking feeling :cowboy:
as an adult,it's clear to me now...why Ernest T Bass, threw rocks at people..

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:59 am

In the Simmental Breed, it is like everything else in life, it takes some time to sort things out. The really great bulls still keep being used. Built Right, Dream On, Upgrade, Shear Force, etc. The semen just keeps going up until there is no more.
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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Luckiamute » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:13 am

Hunter wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 am
How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?
Not sure I have those answers, but here's a good example for reference. Mytty In Focus is/was one of the most popular Black Angus bulls of all time. I remember recently reading something that he is in the top 5 all-time for breed registrations. I believe that number is more than 45,000 head. Keep in mind that these are just the REGISTERED offspring. They do not include commercial calves ... and he was a very popular bull with the commercial sector during his heyday.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Ky hills » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:36 am

Hunter wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:00 am
Thanks for the responses. I was just trying to gage how many straws they would need to sell to make a profit.

Maybe in the future I will have time to learn how to A.I. myself as I think there are advantages to doing it.
In my opinion you are correct that there are advantages to doing the AI yourself. If you hire it done it's usually now a days timed AI, which I don't think gets near as good of conception rates as if you can watch them and breed them as they are ready.

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Re: God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

Post by Till-Hill » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:26 pm

Luckiamute wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:13 am
Hunter wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 am
How long can the average bull produce semen?
How many straws can an average bull produce?
Not sure I have those answers, but here's a good example for reference. Mytty In Focus is/was one of the most popular Black Angus bulls of all time. I remember recently reading something that he is in the top 5 all-time for breed registrations. I believe that number is more than 45,000 head. Keep in mind that these are just the REGISTERED offspring. They do not include commercial calves ... and he was a very popular bull with the commercial sector during his heyday.
Holstein article on bulls that have produced a million units. https://hoards.com/blog-491-elite-semen ... -mark.html

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