Linebreeding Info

Got a calving or breeding question? Get an answer.
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Ebenezer
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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Ebenezer » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:44 am

Quite frankly it is my experience that line breeding is a lot of talk but mostly luck.

If it works you look like a genius.

When it fails you get the truth.

Had to chuckle - have you ever noticed how many new and great bulls disappear out of an AI catalog and a breeder's bull pen each year or wonder what happened that your AI calves by the bull that did so well for the owner were merely average or worse for you? When you use line crosses, expansive modern AI efforts and new bulls of varied genetic differences you can say the exact same thing:

If it works you look like a genius.

When it fails you get the truth.

Linebreeding is not merely a topic of discussion. Linebreeding is a tool to speed to the last chapter to know how the story ends. But you need to have a purpose or not do it merely as a fad effort or to be a part of the minority. To minimize linebreeding is to completely erase the work of past breeders who were masters, to forget how breeds were formed and stabilized and to forget that not too many decades ago that folks and livestock were not as mobile in all herds and flocks and there were regional lines, line associations, ...

My estimate: expect 85% failure in tight linebred populations from start up. The remaining 15% will need to be expanded and selected phenotypically for line type. The purpose is still not stated but it is the key to setting a goal or starting the journey. You are seeking a stabilized population so that they will benefit you and others so that the last words of the last chapter are "and they lived happier and with known results ever after".

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by slick4591 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:12 am

It's not a real tight breeding, but I have maternal grandson over his grandmother calf due in March. I'm kinda excited to see what I get.
I wish my brain could forget what my eyes have seen.

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Supa Dexta
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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Supa Dexta » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:44 pm

Bump. Whats everyone up to these days in the line breeding department?

I spent a lot of today planning for 2020 calves, and who's going to be bred to whom this coming season.

And what are you using for a program for calculating pairings?

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Silver » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:52 pm

Divide my cows by 25, add one or two and that's how many bulls I throw out and hope for the best.
Decent cows bred to decent bulls should make decent calves. If they don't, hopefully their replacements will.

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Supa Dexta » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:06 pm

That has nothing to do with this thread^

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Silver » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:13 pm

Supa Dexta wrote:That has nothing to do with this thread^


Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. That would depend on if some of those boys are breeding their mothers or their sisters wouldn't it?

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Supa Dexta » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:17 pm

Well since you feel like typing - Post up some of the IBCs and AVKs, and what you've been seeing over multi generational pairings. Lets get down to business.

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Silver » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:20 pm

The whole point of my post was to point out that all the time spent agonizing over matings will probably not net much over blind luck. Except I'm sure in your case, I know you must be setting the world on fire.

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Supa Dexta » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:21 pm

You may wanna head over to facebook if you just wanna write words on a page.

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Silver » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:23 pm

Supa Dexta wrote:You may wanna head over to facebook if you just wanna write words on a page.


Well smarty pants, perhaps you want to fill us in on the great strides you've made over the average producer. You know, seeing as you're full of wisdom tonight.

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Supa Dexta » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:26 pm

No I asked for pertinent information within a long standing thread, and you felt the need to inject your herd stats into it. So the floor is yours. Carry on. Again what program are you using for simply calculating inbreeding coefficients and how many single animal pedigrees, and generations does it support?

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Silver » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:41 pm

Well, I'll tell you what I've found. It works until it doesn't. There's no more to it than that. If you want to complicate it and confound us with brilliance then carry on.
In the end all the $20,000+ plus bulls mated to their close expensive relates amount to nothing much more than high dollar bragging rights that mean nothing in terms of real world profitability or functioning cattle.
There is no shortage of folks that want to tell us how wonderful this bloodline is or this mating is, and I guess the point of my post was simply to be the guy that says what nobody else wants to: raise good cows, retain good heifers, and you'll out do all the fancy high priced line bred matings on an across the board average. And you won't have to waste a day pondering matings when you could have done something productive.
I think these points are valid to the thread, and obviously you do not. I don't think there is a rule on this board that we need to agree, nor is there one that says we can't disrupt a thread with our points of view on a subject. And now you have my clearly stated view on the subject of the thread.
You're welcome.

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Supa Dexta » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:25 am

'It works until it doesn't'.. So profound. Be sure to let the entire black angus breed know that, the holstein industry, Every breed of dog, chicken, pig, all modern animal agriculture has got to where it is due in part to line breeding..

That would be the same as me showing up in a silage thread and going.. Wait just one minute now! silage only works until it doesn't. Don't even bother trying to make silage, you'll just end up with rotten feed eventually.. - because you had one bad batch of silage? Or you could just throw away the rotten silage and carry on with what works.

I didn't start a new thread saying, oh hey guy's I just heard of this crazy new thing called fancy inbreeding, whats that all about? We're well beyond your concerns.....And eventually someday, when I finally do buy a cow, I'm gonna line breed it and feed it silage.

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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:55 am

Supa - are you being serious? You don't own any cattle?
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Re: Linebreeding Info

Post by Supa Dexta » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:15 am

Thought about it once.

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