Hammonds Pardoned.

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True Grit Farms
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:42 am

Let's try this, with a mid - trial intervention and a guilty plea on lesser charges how did a JURY find them guilty? This was all buddy buddy stuff till Washington got involved.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:47 am

True Grit Farms wrote:Let's try this, with a mid - trial intervention and a guilty plea on lesser charges how did a JURY find them guilty? This was all buddy buddy stuff till Washington got involved.


Vince, my good friend.

This thread is about a Presidential Pardon. It was politically motivated. Which is fine. Most are! What you are seeking is Justice. This was not about Justice, it was pandering to his political base. Don't look so naive.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:54 am

I really didn't care one way or the other about the Hammonds. I posted this because it pertains to cattle, and individual rights. They were guilty of burning OUR property. I'm debating if the Hammonds were found guilty by a jury. Buddy buddy stuff doesn't work in a jury trial.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:03 am

True Grit Farms wrote:I really didn't care one way or the other about the Hammonds. I posted this because it pertains to cattle, and individual rights. They were guilty of burning OUR property. I'm debating if the Hammonds were found guilty by a jury. Buddy buddy stuff doesn't work in a jury trial.


I can promise you this. Anything you can get past the judge is fair game. It is not a place for sissies.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby Bestoutwest » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:28 am

ga.prime wrote:The jury heard the all evidence from both sides and voted to convict, end of argument. Did Hammonds appeal? No, because they made a deal to serve the sentence for the arson convictions in exchange for the prosecution to drop further criminal charges.


The problem is, though, is that juries don't hear all the evidence. There is a lot that is inadmissible for one reason or another, which is manipulated by both sides. I feel like they are guilty as well, but this isn't a violent crime that paints a definitive picture. My wife was on a jury for a fraud/Ponzi scheme case. It was quite ambiguous as to their guilt. They were found guilty, but it was difficult to really prove intent in a case where it's not blatantly obvious. Which is where I believe this case falls.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:30 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
ga.prime wrote:The jury heard the all evidence from both sides and voted to convict, end of argument. Did Hammonds appeal? No, because they made a deal to serve the sentence for the arson convictions in exchange for the prosecution to drop further criminal charges.


The problem is, though, is that juries don't hear all the evidence. There is a lot that is inadmissible for one reason or another, which is manipulated by both sides. I feel like they are guilty as well, but this isn't a violent crime that paints a definitive picture. My wife was on a jury for a fraud/Ponzi scheme case. It was quite ambiguous as to their guilt. They were found guilty, but it was difficult to really prove intent in a case where it's not blatantly obvious. Which is where I believe this case falls.


It's very obvious to me that the Hammonds burned over 100 acres of our public property. The government drummed up more charges to try and make an example out of them, and did. But by the government making an example out of the Hammonds it backfired because of the Bundy bunch. Now the government looks like do do.
I still think the Hammonds pled guilty and made a deal before the jury found them guilty.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby ga.prime » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:09 pm

One thing I respect about the Hammonds is their rejection of Sovereign Citizen Bundy.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby ga.prime » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:16 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
ga.prime wrote:The jury heard the all evidence from both sides and voted to convict, end of argument. Did Hammonds appeal? No, because they made a deal to serve the sentence for the arson convictions in exchange for the prosecution to drop further criminal charges.


The problem is, though, is that juries don't hear all the evidence.

Ok, the jury heard all the admissible evidence. That they didn't hear inadmissible evidence goes without saying. If the jury heard inadmissible evidence, it would have been a mistrial.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby Bestoutwest » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:51 pm

ga.prime wrote:One thing I respect about the Hammonds is their rejection of Sovereign Citizen Bundy.


There's a load of crap. They don't want to pay any taxes, but they want all the perks. No better than those that milk the welfare system.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby Bright Raven » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:12 pm

Bestoutwest wrote:
ga.prime wrote:One thing I respect about the Hammonds is their rejection of Sovereign Citizen Bundy.


There's a load of crap. They don't want to pay any taxes, but they want all the perks. No better than those that milk the welfare system.


Sovereign Citizen Bundy.
It is nothing other than anarchy.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby Dave » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:58 pm

The Hammonds were charged with two fires burning 140 acres of BLM ground. This is in a county which is bigger than 6 different states and has a population of about 7,000. There are miles after miles of nothing but sage brush and rocks. One fire was 139 acres of BLM that was caused by a controlled burn on their own property which got away from them. The other one acre burn was part of a back fire they set to keep a wildfire that was burning on BLM property from coming on to their property. Neither fire was set on the BLM. And it was not their intent to burn on BLM land. They were previously convicted on this and served 6 months. The 6 months was not enough to keep the government happy so they charged them under a different law for the same act. That is mighty close to double jeopardy.
A few interesting facts of some relevance. They are the last ranch in that area holding out on selling out the wildlife refuge. They are the last ranchers on the Steens Mountains and the government and environmentalist want them off the mountains. The manager of the wildlife refuge and the BLM manager are married to each other. Through all of this the government somehow coerced them into signing an agreement saying that if they ever do sell the land it will be sold to the government. My wife owned a ranch in that county. She like most other ranchers in that area ate lots of deer meat which may not have been taken during season. She said why start a fire to cover up an out of season deer. Fire brings lots of attention by a lot of people in a hurry. A gut pile out in the sage brush is seen by nobody and the coyotes will have it all gone in a day or two. There was a reason the feds put the trial in Pendleton. Had it been held in Burns they would never have been convicted. Realize their ranch is nearly in Nevada and Pendleton is just south of Washington State.
Personally I don't care if it was political to pardon them. Because it was most certainly political to charge them in the first place.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby True Grit Farms » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:13 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogwest.o ... bundy/amp/
Pretty good read on the Bundy family.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby TennesseeTuxedo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:14 pm

Well said Dave.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby hurleyjd » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:29 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogwest.org/2014/04/21/understanding-cliven-bundy/amp/
Pretty good read on the Bundy family.


I just read the article posted and found it interesting. I was wondering why the government did not declare imminent domain and take all of Bundys property and water rights. After all if a professional league baseball team wants to expand they will declare imminent domain and take peoples homes that have been living in them for most of their life. They will not get enough money to replace the home somewhere else.
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Re: Hammonds Pardoned.

Postby TennesseeTuxedo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:45 pm

hurleyjd wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogwest.org/2014/04/21/understanding-cliven-bundy/amp/
Pretty good read on the Bundy family.


I just read the article posted and found it interesting. I was wondering why the government did not declare imminent domain and take all of Bundys property and water rights. After all if a professional league baseball team wants to expand they will declare imminent domain and take peoples homes that have been living in them for most of their life. They will not get enough money to replace the home somewhere else.


So what? We gotta play ball.
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