BUBS Southern Charm AA31

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by LCBulls » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:46 pm

NEFarmwife wrote:
LCBulls wrote:Looking at the pedigree leads me to believe that Connealy Confidence might have had something to do with it. His calves were pretty dang small and not a lot of growth. He was all the rage until his numbers plunged.
Gaffney Game Changers were pretty nice though.
Who really knows why some matings seem to click while others don’t. I wish I had all the answers.

We have some Game Changers coming now. We bred some to second calf heifers. We’ve had to pull two and they ran a little bigger than they should have been but my husband felt in those two instances, that neither dams tried very hard because they were very easy pulls.


That’s interesting, we didn’t have any trouble with them at all on heifers. The lone survivor from our Frozen Pond fiasco was a Game Changer x Donna first calf heifer. Just about lost her as well. She is really nice and has a great EPD profile. We will have to see if she lives up to the EPD’s.



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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by NEFarmwife » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:56 pm

LCBulls wrote:
NEFarmwife wrote:
LCBulls wrote:Looking at the pedigree leads me to believe that Connealy Confidence might have had something to do with it. His calves were pretty dang small and not a lot of growth. He was all the rage until his numbers plunged.
Gaffney Game Changers were pretty nice though.
Who really knows why some matings seem to click while others don’t. I wish I had all the answers.

We have some Game Changers coming now. We bred some to second calf heifers. We’ve had to pull two and they ran a little bigger than they should have been but my husband felt in those two instances, that neither dams tried very hard because they were very easy pulls.


That’s interesting, we didn’t have any trouble with them at all on heifers. The lone survivor from our Frozen Pond fiasco was a Game Changer x Donna first calf heifer. Just about lost her as well. She is really nice and has a great EPD profile. We will have to see if she lives up to the EPD’s.
I think my husband was likely right on them. I wouldn’t say they’re birth weights were enormous. Just a bit bigger than expected.
https://doddscattle.com/
Dodds Cattle

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by Brookhill Angus » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:32 pm

I'm scratching my head on this one. Everything we have in the herd that has Basin blood in it performs. I think Basin puts out an exceptional product.

You never here much about the cows that produced these "lousy" animals. What was their backstory?
"When someone tells you it can't be done, it's more a reflection of their limitations, not yours"

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by Stickney94 » Thu May 21, 2020 2:33 pm

Apologies for resurrecting a zombie thread but saw that Southern Charm was hurt and put down earlier this week.

See note in first part of description on the right.

https://origenbeef.org/semen_detail.php?bull=889

In case you want to place some orders.

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by 76 Bar » Thu May 21, 2020 6:02 pm

Yet another highly hyped terminal Angus. Maternally stacked 2 generations deep for poor udders & displayed in the photo of the bull.
https://www.herbsterangus.com/copy-of-sundance

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by kentuckyguy » Thu May 21, 2020 8:01 pm

I have to disagree with those being poor udders. While they are not perfect they are FAR from being poor.

I never used Southern Charm but I believe he had some good attributes to bring to the table.

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by Ebenezer » Fri May 22, 2020 6:28 am

When a dry cow looks like that I sort of know what she'll look like when she calves. I do not want that, I would cull if it was mine and would not pay or breed to get it. I assume we are looking at the dam.

Once again we learn the hard, cruel lesson of early development and over development of bulls. If you want feedlot type performance and data, feed and kill sib steers. If you want bulls with function and longevity, develop slowly but consistently. Kids are no different. Early entry into sports has raised a rash of injuries to kids; some permanent. It is recognized and warning are out there. On bulls, it seems the answer is buffer the feed to prevent rumen issues and the more gain the merrier. Either learn the lessons, complain that the great ones melted away in your pasture or salvage the injured young bulls for burgers. All things have limits.

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by W.B. » Fri May 22, 2020 7:31 am

I never saw the bull in person but never cared for how he or his progeny walked on video. Did this cause his demise? I don’t necessarily think so as bulls get injured all the time breeding cows and is part of life. As far as udders go I feel there is no such thing as too good of an udder. There are lots of cows that would extend their productive life 2 to 5 years if they had better udders. When we look at depreciation costs in the cowherd that is serious money. The bull in question here would be a downgrade by a fair bit on udder quality for me. Easier to cull problems like udders than it is to breed it out but multiplying more problems is less than smart.

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by 76 Bar » Fri May 22, 2020 10:51 am

Beef semen pimp's obviously haven't a clue. :frowns:
Charm descends from a line of females with quality udder structure
Regardless of one's opinion regarding Gerald Frey his remarks on the topic of udders are spot on:
The udder should be small and tucked neatly between the back legs with
four equally placed nipples 3-4 inches long. The udder should attach high
up behind the back legs for longevity and soundness.
The udder should blend into the lower part of the belly very smoothly
with no V or crevice between the udder and stomach. The udder should not be tilted up in front. Tilted udders are a structural defect resulting from the sire and his scrotal makeup. Tilted udders have less milk.
The udder has a direct influence on the scrotal make up and navel area of her sons.
IMNSHO the challenge of resolving/correcting udder and feet issues takes generations of diligent corrective measures. Buyer beware.

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by Stickney94 » Fri May 22, 2020 11:09 am

There was a great comment in another forum asking why the need to debate the merits of female offspring if the bull was perhaps best suited as a terminal sire.

Some in the cattle business are looking for terminal sires. :D

But, just to fuel the debate -- I had a heifer calve with what I assume (just looked at the angus scoring guide) many would say was a superior udder and teat. Except she didn't claim the calf.

I have some 6, 7, 8 year old cows with less than ideal udders and teats, but they are excellent mothers and wean off my best calves.

There is a balance in all areas. I cull hard on mothering capability as a whole.

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by 76 Bar » Sat May 23, 2020 11:01 am

There was a great comment in another forum asking why the need to debate the merits of female offspring if the bull was perhaps best suited as a terminal sire.
Using terminal sires is an acknowledged practice. Problematic is few have the discipline to ship all and resist the temptation to incorporate the heifers as replacements...and then become frustrated when they fall short of mark maternally.
But, just to fuel the debate -- I had a heifer calve with what I assume (just looked at the angus scoring guide) many would say was a superior udder and teat. Except she didn't claim the calf.

Udder structure & lack of mothering instinct aren't correlated. As per your comment below, I trust you culled her ASAP.
There is a balance in all areas. I cull hard on mothering capability as a whole.
Some things are easier to tolerate. Compromising on conformation/udder/feet will sooner rather than later come home to roost. :2cents:

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by Stickney94 » Tue May 26, 2020 10:42 am

76 Bar wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:01 am
Using terminal sires is an acknowledged practice. Problematic is few have the discipline to ship all and resist the temptation to incorporate the heifers as replacements...and then become frustrated when they fall short of mark maternally.
Agreed.
76 Bar wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:01 am
Udder structure & lack of mothering instinct aren't correlated. As per your comment below, I trust you culled her ASAP.
Can I claim success if I managed to negotiate a truce that allowed me to avoid a bottle calf? In all honesty she likely received a Covid-19 reprieve. I had more time to mess with her than I normally would (due to Covid closure) and, more importantly, due to the huge meat processing shutdowns regionally my local lockers were/are booked out until April/May 2021. Without that she would already be in my fat cattle yard.

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Re: BUBS Southern Charm AA31

Post by elkwc » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:08 pm

An y updates on his progeny. I'm goiny to look at 3 of his sons. Would like to hear comments about both aons and daughters

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