Genetic planning

Breed your cows to the best bulls in the nation!
hornedfrogbbq
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:36 pm
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Genetic planning

Post by hornedfrogbbq » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:37 am

We ranch in north central Texas.

We have a pure bred black angus commercial herd.

We have been heavily using Connealy genetics and 10x sons.

For the first time, we are following our steers through the feedlot and will get full carcass info to help us plan.

I am assuming we'll be marbling ok and will score well both in the feedyard and on the rail. We'll soon see.

We have a goal to retain ownership all the way through to sell on a quality grid.

We are concentrating on SAV genetics for the next 3 years to help us in our rate of gain and to try and increase our wean weights. We have to maintain a moderate frame. Goal is 600lb calves at 7 months of wean.

Looking out 3 years, since SAV cattle aren't known for their marbling traits, I might come back with more marbling bulls and semen. GAR clearly focuses on that but many don't like their "look." I know Bub's rings alot of bells on our multi-trait EPD selection process. VAR seems to focus heavily on 10x genetics to get their carcass quality...as does 44 farms (although both clearly use other sires as well. We joke that the 44 farm's sale is like shopping at Target...something for everyone!)

Any suggestions from producers that are carrying their cattle through the system? We aren't driving for prime and are not chasing that but do want to try and get CAB premiums and grade out choice or higher.

Who do you all use when you are tuning up your herd to score well in the feedlot and have quality premiums later on?

Hogtiming
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:32 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by Hogtiming » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:55 pm

The sav calves with the proper feed will grade a lot better than you should expect. I would use baldridge lines if I wanted to add marbling definitely before I went to using Gar.

LCBulls
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:18 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by LCBulls » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:57 pm

I’d use Resource. He is a proven cowmaker and looks like he grades really good. Obviously won’t improve the Marbling on Paper though.
I think he should cross well on those lines.

Image

User avatar
Jeanne - Simme Valley
GURU
GURU
Posts: 9894
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:46 am
Location: Central Upstate New York
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 109 times
Contact:

Re: Genetic planning

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:07 pm

IDK - I raise PB Simmental, and I didn't have any trouble with my black steers qualifying for CAB. They were fed out on a feedlot at Cornell Univ. Averaged 13 months at 1300#. How hard can it be? LOL
Simme Valley of New York - http://www.SimmeValley.com
"We make a living by what we get,
we make a life by what we give."

User avatar
sim.-ang.king
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4670
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Southern IL
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 144 times
Contact:

Re: Genetic planning

Post by sim.-ang.king » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:23 pm

If I was in your shoes and retaining ownership, I would never feed a straight bred steer.
Split up your herd, best cows get straight bred for replacement, lower 2/3rds gets crossed to improve ADG, F/G, and increased vigor.
If you already have good carcass traits, and a good group of cows, I would use Simmental or some Continental to give you better over all muscling, and with simmy you wouldn't be sacrificing carcass, and you could breed for moderate frame. (Most simmy's are smaller framed than the mainline angus.)
“Almost persuaded,” harvest is past!
“Almost persuaded,” doom comes at last;
“Almost” cannot avail;
“Almost” is but to fail!
Sad, sad that bitter wail—
“Almost—but lost!”

YoungAngusCattle
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:43 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by YoungAngusCattle » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:28 pm

LCBulls wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:57 pm
I’d use Resource. He is a proven cowmaker and looks like he grades really good. Obviously won’t improve the Marbling on Paper though.
I think he should cross well on those lines.
How do you know which angus lines cross well? Serious question I am trying to get myself established in the seedstock world.
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." - Lombardi

LCBulls
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:18 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by LCBulls » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:54 am

YoungAngusCattle wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:28 pm
LCBulls wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:57 pm
I’d use Resource. He is a proven cowmaker and looks like he grades really good. Obviously won’t improve the Marbling on Paper though.
I think he should cross well on those lines.
How do you know which angus lines cross well? Serious question I am trying to get myself established in the seedstock world.
To be honest, you don’t really know what will work good together. As Breeders, we are always trying to improve our cattle. There are strengths and weaknesses to each Sire that we use.
We have used Ten X progeny and they do many things well, but they definitely have some negatives, especially feet, structure and maternally.
Resource is a bull that will fix a lot of those issues. He Sires heavy muscled, moderate framed, easy fleshing calves with good feet.
His negatives are that he is not a Low Birthweight Calving Ease Sire and some think that they are not big enough frame size.
What I like about him, is that they grow to a year as good as any bull out there and then shut it down. They don’t continue to grow to be enormously huge like other Growth bulls. His daughters are fantastic and by reading the bottom of that picture I sent, his calves grade near the top for Carcass traits.

User avatar
gizmom
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3006
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:23 pm
Location: Molino Florida
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

Re: Genetic planning

Post by gizmom » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:02 am

Ok my two cents Connealy isn’t a genetic line it’s a farm. What genetic line do you like at Connealy? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the line.

Gizmom
Respect give it to get it!

LCBulls
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:18 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by LCBulls » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:20 am

gizmom wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:02 am
Ok my two cents Connealy isn’t a genetic line it’s a farm. What genetic line do you like at Connealy? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the line.

Gizmom
Yeah, Connealy is one of the farms that probably has the most diversity. They use many of the currently popular AI Sires each year. I would think that they have really good cows. I also think that they are probably really different from each other. I could be wrong though. Never been to their sale.

Ebenezer
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1407
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Piedmont of SC
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by Ebenezer » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:42 pm

Just curious on some of these quests for bulls to do X, Y and Z. Have you used the AAA Sire Search and put in your criteria to see a sort to give you an unbiased opinion of what is available in the breed? Would be a lot better than getting statements on what few bulls have been used by posters from my opinion.

LCBulls
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:18 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by LCBulls » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:24 pm

Ebenezer wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:42 pm
Just curious on some of these quests for bulls to do X, Y and Z. Have you used the AAA Sire Search and put in your criteria to see a sort to give you an unbiased opinion of what is available in the breed? Would be a lot better than getting statements on what few bulls have been used by posters from my opinion.
Your right that it isn’t a bad idea to use an EPD sort.
Just remind yourself that those EPDs your looking at is a picture in time and that many of those bulls will be way different than what it shows currently.
I also believe that it’s best to use your eyes and ears from people who have experience in those bulls that you just sorted.

Ebenezer
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1407
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:46 am
Location: Piedmont of SC
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by Ebenezer » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:35 pm

LCBulls wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:24 pm
Ebenezer wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:42 pm
Just curious on some of these quests for bulls to do X, Y and Z. Have you used the AAA Sire Search and put in your criteria to see a sort to give you an unbiased opinion of what is available in the breed? Would be a lot better than getting statements on what few bulls have been used by posters from my opinion.
Your right that it isn’t a bad idea to use an EPD sort.
Just remind yourself that those EPDs your looking at is a picture in time and that many of those bulls will be way different than what it shows currently.
I also believe that it’s best to use your eyes and ears from people who have experience in those bulls that you just sorted.
Same on opinions. Use higher accuracy on the sort if you want to get closer.

User avatar
CreekAngus
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:44 pm
Location: Southwest Washington
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by CreekAngus » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:54 pm

It appears you are looking for terminal sires and the biggest complaint about the Angus breed has been the push towards the terminal numbers. I always think of SAV as being a maternal breeder, if I was going terminal, everything in Jindra’s semen tank would be on my list, Acclaim, Guinness, Megahit, 3rd Dimension.....etc.
A brand ins’t something you earn, it’s something you live up to - John Dutton

Bcompton53
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:03 pm
Location: NE Kansas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by Bcompton53 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:48 am

CreekAngus wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:54 pm
It appears you are looking for terminal sires and the biggest complaint about the Angus breed has been the push towards the terminal numbers. I always think of SAV as being a maternal breeder, if I was going terminal, everything in Jindra’s semen tank would be on my list, Acclaim, Guinness, Megahit, 3rd Dimension.....etc.
I thought people always considered SAV to grow big giant cows. some folks want that, but to me, that sounds more terminal than maternal.

LCBulls
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:18 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Genetic planning

Post by LCBulls » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:20 am

Bcompton53 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:48 am
CreekAngus wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:54 pm
It appears you are looking for terminal sires and the biggest complaint about the Angus breed has been the push towards the terminal numbers. I always think of SAV as being a maternal breeder, if I was going terminal, everything in Jindra’s semen tank would be on my list, Acclaim, Guinness, Megahit, 3rd Dimension.....etc.
I thought people always considered SAV to grow big giant cows. some folks want that, but to me, that sounds more terminal than maternal.
That’s funny, I’m sure that they have some bigger cows. But if you look at the Sires they’ve been using, I’d say that they are moderating them while still keeping the capacity and dimension. They are definitely not near as big frame wise as those just listed

Rito 707
*Resource*
Renown
*Charlo*
EXT

* these bulls are very moderate and the most used by them recently

Post Reply