Retained Placenta

Cattle problems.
wbvs58
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4537
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:45 am
Location: S.E. Queensland, Australia
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 245 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by wbvs58 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:57 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:28 pm
Isn't it strange how each state is so different? Ours is strictly 4-8 months.
The export/import regulations of each respective state are determined by its respective health challenges and status. CA currently mandates calf hood vaccination...4-8 months of age for dairy heifers, 4-12 months for beef heifers. Gets far more complicated with advanced age and subsequent shipping across state lines. Agreements amongst/between states also come into play.
It is a long time since I had anything to do with Brucellosis vaccinations, we called it Strain 19 vaccine.
Correct me if I'm mistaken but the strain 19 was considered a "hot" one i.e. knocked the soup out of the vaccinates and producers were admonished not to use an antibiotic nor a Killed or ML vaccine in conjunction with Strain 19. Thankfully, RB-51 is apparently far less virulent and more forgiving.
Yes many vets contracted Brucellosis from needle injuries from the vaccine itself but as I said this was 40 years ago and it was eradicated here.

Ken



User avatar
JW IN VA
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:30 pm
Location: West Central Highlands of Va
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by JW IN VA » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:27 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:23 am
Update:
Since this heifer has been vaccinated for vibriosis, Leptospira, BVD, brucellosis, etc. Those titers are going to show up if the vaccinations were effective.

The heifer was not vaccinated for Neospora or anaplasmosis so if those titers show up, we will know that she has been exposed at some time in her life to those pathogens.


Unfortunately,there is no vaccine in the US for Neospora,yet.Several universities are studying it so maybe someday.


Regarding Neospora. He said it is not a concern to the rest of the herd. It is transmitted vertically not laterally. Meaning from mother to calf. One cow does not transmit it to another cow. The protozoan is carried in the environment by predators such as dogs, coyotes, foxes.




He is telling you exactly what I was told by my vet about transmission being vertical in the herd. There will be titers in the blood for lepto but the levels should be fairly low.If not you might talk to him about doing a six months booster for the Lepto.This is what mine recommended to me when I ran into a few cases of it some years back.I had not done the second dose at 4 to 6 weeks as I should have :dunce: and got a hot strain going.Since going to six months rotation I haven't had any more problems and I make sure the new heifers get that second shot in the beginning.Inned to read the UK thread.I think that is where my ve called to get the latest information.
Not everything your neighbors do is wrong-Not everything they do is right,either.

User avatar
JW IN VA
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:30 pm
Location: West Central Highlands of Va
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by JW IN VA » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:30 pm

I somehow deleted your quotation marks and my response is intermingled with some of your post above.
Not everything your neighbors do is wrong-Not everything they do is right,either.

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10279
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 735 times
Been thanked: 768 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by Bright Raven » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:06 am

JW IN VA wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:30 pm
I somehow deleted your quotation marks and my response is intermingled with some of your post above.
Exactly. One of the benefits of this panel will be learning the level of titers for Leptospira in my herd that has resulted from my vaccination program.

If you read the article I posted the link on, you will see it confirms vertical transmission of Neospora - from dam to calf in utero.

The point he was making on vertical transmission is that it cannot be transmitted from cow to cow by nose contact or exchange of fluids. However, other cows can be infected by horizontal transmission if a cow picks up an oocyst when grazing.

🐮
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

76 Bar
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 1:17 pm
Location: South Western Oregon
Has thanked: 275 times
Been thanked: 191 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by 76 Bar » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:23 am

Yes many vets contracted Brucellosis from needle injuries from the vaccine itself but as I said this was 40 years ago and it was eradicated here.
Seems like yesterday. :lol:
Had a slaughter cow test positive back in the early 70's. 7,500 acre non-contiguous ranch and cattle were many miles away on summer range. Huge headache to gather everything and bring them to head quarters. Turned out to be an isolated reactor deal and thankfully, nothing else required condemnation.

User avatar
JW IN VA
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:30 pm
Location: West Central Highlands of Va
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by JW IN VA » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:50 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:06 am
JW IN VA wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:30 pm
I somehow deleted your quotation marks and my response is intermingled with some of your post above.
Exactly. One of the benefits of this panel will be learning the level of titers for Leptospira in my herd that has resulted from

If you read the article I posted the link on, you will see it confirms vertical transmission of Neospora - from dam to calf in utero.

The point he was making on vertical transmission is that it cannot be transmitted from cow to cow by nose contact or exchange of fluids. However, other cows can be infected by horizontal transmission if a cow picks up an oocyst when grazing.

🐮
Exactly what my vet told me.The horizontal comes in when,for example,a coyote or fox eats the dead fetus and becomes infected then, through their fecal material getting in to feed supply, another cow can become infected.
In the case of a cow transferring it to her calf, most wouldn't catch onto it unless the cow or heifer calf later show symptoms.If she has all steer calves,you might never know it unless she show symptoms,or through a blood test.
Hope they get a vaccine soon.Especially since there are so many coyotes roaming the country.
Not everything your neighbors do is wrong-Not everything they do is right,either.

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10279
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 735 times
Been thanked: 768 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by Bright Raven » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:06 pm

Update 2.

I made preparations early this morning to take the samples for the blood panel. I palpated her rectally. There was a large accumulation of fluid, broken down membranes and blood in the right horn. By a cupping action with my hand, I forced about a pint of the crud out.

The volume of putrid crud had the right horn pulled down. I was alarmed by the volume so I called my vet. The vet came out at 1 PM. Dr. Ramer did a vaginal palpation. She confirmed the remains of the placenta in the uterus. The cervix was closed. She switched to a rectal palpation. She said she could still feel that some of the cotyledons were attached. She also forced out some crud. Dr. Ramer said the volume was not alarming.

She gave a shot of exceede in the cartilage behind her left ear. Her temperature was about 103.5. Dr. Ramer thinks she will recover and there is no damage to her reproductive system. Dr Ramer advised watching in this heat.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
Nesikep
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 14978
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:37 pm
Location: Lillooet, BC, Canada
Has thanked: 764 times
Been thanked: 573 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by Nesikep » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:35 pm

Yeah, with that temp I think antibiotics are in order too.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
-Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10279
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 735 times
Been thanked: 768 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:20 pm

The blood samples have gone to the University of Kentucky for a complete blood panel. This is going to be interesting. Immunity is measured in titers - the concentration of an antibody, as determined by finding the highest dilution at which it is still able to cause agglutination of the antigen.

Without the fetus or placenta, it will not be possible to conclude what caused the abortion but the blood panel will identify what pathogens the heifer has antibodies for including antibodies produced as an immune response to a vaccine. Following is her vaccination record:

HEIFER: Spot. DOB 9/16/2017
1. On Day of Birth. Inforce 3. Which is IBR, Parainfluenza 3 and BRSV.
2. 11/14/17. Second Inforce 3.
3. 11/26/17. Covexin 8. Which is an eight way Clostridial.
4. 1/19/18. Second Covexin 8.
5. 3/15/18. Brucellosis.
6. 4/3/18. Bovi Shield Gold FP 5 VL5. Which is IBR, BVD, PI3, BRSV. PLUS Vibriosis and the 5 Leptospira species.
7. 4/12/18. Once PMH Intranasal. Which is shipping fever. Mannheimia Haemolytica and Pasteurella Multocida
8. 10/12/18. Second Fetal Protection. Bovi Shield Gold One Shot. Which is IBR, BVD, PI3, AND BRSV plus Mannheimia.
9. 10/12/18. Spirovav VL5. Which is the 5 Leptospira species plus vibriosis.
10. 10/22/18. Autogenous Pinkeye. A custom preparation of 12 strains of Moraxella.
11. 10/22/18. Covexin 8.
12. 3/26/19. Spirovac VL5. Which is the 5 Leptospira species plus vibriosis.
13. 3/26/19. Second Autogenous Pinkeye.

She was treated for parasites 4 times during this period. She was pelvic scored at 12 months with a score of 182 Square centimeters.

That is a lot of immunity for a heifer that is not 2 years old yet. It is going to be interesting to see how all that vaccination expresses itself in titers.

PS: Jeanne. I was wrong on when Dr Stanfield administers the Brucellosis. He does it at 6 months.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
TennesseeTuxedo
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 14078
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:49 pm
Location: Live in Franklin, TN farm in Warsaw, KY
Has thanked: 826 times
Been thanked: 756 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:40 pm

So Grit was right, a shot behind the ear fixes a lot.
Making Cattle Today Great Again!
Sometimes you do have to throw out the babies with the bath water.

wbvs58
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4537
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:45 am
Location: S.E. Queensland, Australia
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 245 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by wbvs58 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:46 pm

Paired blood samples help distinguish what is what often Ron as in a rising titre. Often at the time of an event they show -ve but 3-4 wks later show a titre.

Ken

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10279
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 735 times
Been thanked: 768 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:13 pm

wbvs58 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:46 pm
Paired blood samples help distinguish what is what often Ron as in a rising titre. Often at the time of an event they show -ve but 3-4 wks later show a titre.

Ken
Exactly. What I should and may do is another blood panel in about a month. If the titers stay the same or decrease, then they are the result of vaccination. If they increase, I have a carrier infection going on.

BTW: there is an 80 % probability that the abortion was not the result of a pathogen. The most important feedback will be the level of immunity that vaccines are producing. I have always been curious about that.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10858
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:46 am
Location: Central Upstate New York
Has thanked: 471 times
Been thanked: 702 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:29 am

6 months fits right into the same as here - for Bruc vac.
I will be very interested to see the titre for Lepto. You vaccinated for Lepto:
#6 - 4-3-18
#9 - 10-12-18
#12 - 3-26-19
Lepto is recommended booster 4-6 weeks after initial shot.
BS-5L5-HB recommends a booster shot of Spirovac 4-6 weeks later. You do give 3 shots of Lepto, but none are within the 4-6 week range.
Lepto vaccine is really only good for about 6 months, and with the heavy level of deer population, vets here recommend Lepto shot every 6 months - after initial booster.
Simme Valley of New York - http://www.SimmeValley.com
"We make a living by what we get,
we make a life by what we give."

User avatar
True Grit Farms
GURU
GURU
Posts: 9454
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:29 pm
Location: Middle Georgia
Has thanked: 185 times
Been thanked: 573 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by True Grit Farms » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:44 pm

Probably would of carried the calf to full term if you used Triangle 10 HB instead of different types of Bovi Shield Gold. We quit using Bovi Shield Gold and all our abortions and deformed calves stopped. I'm sure our next calf will be deformed or aborted since I posted this.
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10279
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 735 times
Been thanked: 768 times

Re: Retained Placenta

Post by Bright Raven » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:48 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:29 am
6 months fits right into the same as here - for Bruc vac.
I will be very interested to see the titre for Lepto. You vaccinated for Lepto:
#6 - 4-3-18
#9 - 10-12-18
#12 - 3-26-19
Lepto is recommended booster 4-6 weeks after initial shot.
BS-5L5-HB recommends a booster shot of Spirovac 4-6 weeks later. You do give 3 shots of Lepto, but none are within the 4-6 week range.
Lepto vaccine is really only good for about 6 months, and with the heavy level of deer population, vets here recommend Lepto shot every 6 months - after initial booster.
That is my understanding - Lepto vaccine is only good for six months. That is why I give Bovi Shield Gold FP 5 VL5 prebreeding in the fall and then Spirovac VL5 in the spring.

Yes. My vet said this is going to be interesting because he doesn't have many who cover this many bases on such a strict regiment.

Post Reply