Sinclair Rito Legacy

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

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ENNOT
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Postby ENNOT » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:12 am

In my opinion, there doesn't seem to be much of anything wrong with that bull. I think alot of people would be real suprised on the frame scores of alot of bulls they use. Most easy keeping, functional cattle are frame 5 to 6.

And the scrotal epd is a tool, if he has measured at 44 cm, that is not related to his SC epd indepently. Look at his bloodlines, they are very old and that has alot to do with his epds. I remember a couple of years ago whe n they did some different that changed how the epds were calculated, we had a bunch of older bloodline and older aged cows, drop and get get epds that don't show how good of cattle they are.

I think that bull would definitely help some of these framy, no muscled Angus. You can't use the new hot bulls all the time, sometimes you have to go back and use something that is functional. Something that is an outcross pedigree to anything you have in your herd. Especially in the Angus where almost every top bull is related somewhere in the bloodlines.
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Postby Angus In Texas » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:14 pm

I definitely agree that angus cattle have gotten away from what has got them to where they are today and this bull adresses a lot of those issues but the biggest question I have is do any of ya'll think that there is one thing in particular about this bull that will allow him to stand out from the crowd when compared to many other bulls who are phenotypically sound with similar EPD's.

The biggest reason angus cattle have taken such a phenotypic dive in recent years in my opinion is because everyone is looking for something that stands out above the crowd so that they are able to market the bull better. In other words make more money without worrying about the consequences down the road.

The biggest ribeye, highest IMF, heaviest weaning and yearling weights are all things that sell. They most often are not the best choices for sires but when someone only has data on paper to make their decision with its hard not to go with the bull that will give you the best chance at having an outlier yourself.

To sum it up I feel like the commercial cowman has to start demanding a better product from the Angus producers. If they continue to pay good money for what is produced then nothing will be accomplished.
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Postby Badlands » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:02 pm

His pedigree sticks out. He's not a junk-yard dog with a mixed pedigree like 90% of the AI bulls.

Other than that, only his uncommonly good phenotype and correctness is what sets him apart.

He excels at the things EPD don't measure.

You said "many other bulls that are phenotypically sound with similar EPD."

The point I would make is that there are not very many AI bulls that ARE phenotypically/functionally sound, similar EPD or not. Lot's of talk about being sound, but most of them are pretty trashy bulls, if not in terms of function, then certainly in terms of pedigree.

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Postby badroute » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:08 pm

I recently purchased a few bulls from a breeder that has never waivered from using the older bloodlines. These bulls are chalk full of red meat and moderate in frame. I figure these bulls will sire some very functional cattle that add weight in the form of red meat rather than frame.

The thing about these bulls is their EPD's are not impressive at all. Their WW EPD's are only slightly higher than the milk EPD's of some of the various semen companies top bulls. Their production EPD's are indeed inferior to those of our present day sires but their Maternal EPD's are superior to those of our present day sires.

The question I ask is why are most using Black Angus bulls? Is it to produce superior maternal momma cows as the breed was originally intended, or is it to just to geta black hided calf in order to quench the industrys thirst for black hided calves that grow like weeds.

The two choices, while neither wrong, will definetly require completely different bull types and I'm not sure there is one bull that can accomplish both. It all depends on your priorities.
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Postby DOC HARRIS » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:15 pm

This is the very factor that makes cross-breeding attractive for achieving heterosis, and seeking the best of two worlds.

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Postby BA » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:27 pm

Badroute - I would be interested to know the breeder you are talking about. PM if you don't want to post it. Thanks!
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Re: Sinclair Rito Legacy

Postby Oldtimer » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:28 pm

I was surfing the web- and came across this old thread... I have had some good results from the Rito Legacy 3R9 son I used- Whitney Creek Legacy 726T-- 15800327 ... Unfortunately he got wire cut pretty bad- and I was only able to use him 2 years...
But I did keep a half dozen heifers out of him-- This is one of them as a yearling... These were all first calvers last spring- and look like they will make good momma cows...

L B B Pidge 125 #17049643
Image



And I did get a son out of him that has turned into a good bull- and is my main herdsire: Lazy Bar B Juanada Rito 06X-- 16741353 (traces back to RR Rito 707 more than 20 times)... His first batch of heifers will calve this spring...

Here is a picture of "Juan" singing to the girls...
Image

Just curious if anyone else has had any more recent involvement with Legacy or Rito 707...

If I get a chance I'll try and get some more pictures of his this years crop of calves...
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Re: Sinclair Rito Legacy

Postby gizmom » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:34 pm

We had a 3R9 bull calf born yesterday out of a first calf heifer 11 days early and 58 pounds. He sure works on heifers past experience is limited two pregnancies one 2010 still in the herd expecting her second calf, the other heifer had a set of twins she raised them but they didn't make the cut to stay. I can't remember if we have anymore 3R9's coming this year. We have a grandson of 707 Sinclair Rito 9R9 that we really like, our bull customers sure seem to find his calves.

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Re: Sinclair Rito Legacy

Postby Oldtimer » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:44 pm

While checking the pastures today- I took a few pictures of the "Juan" sired calves...

The one "potential carrier" cow I still have to test for DD (W C R Celtic Beauty 013X # 16769947)- with her nice big "Juan" (Lazy Bar B Juanada Rito 06X #16741353) heifer calf (which will probably become a replacement)...
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Cole Creek Juanada Rain 127W #16453125 with a "Juan" sired heifer calf...
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A first calf heifer L B B Pidge 125 #17049643 with her heifer calf..
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A bull calf out of W C R Mary 845U #16175571- again sired by "Juan"... Mary 845U is a little 4 frame cow that will probably never weigh over 1200 lbs- but has had 2 heifer calves that averaged 625 lbs at weaning and a bull calf that weighed 698 lbs...
Can't ask for much more! She is the cow that became clean when Fairfield Hi Guy tested clean about 8 generations back- and saved me testing her and her daughters -- and a son Lazy Bar B Bannon 2 BY #17049646 that I used quite a bit this spring...

Image

A bull calf out of Lazy Bar B Lady Blackbird #16065897... She's far from my idea of the perfect cow- but she sure raises some nice calves which compensates for a lot... She's raised 2 heifer calves with weaning weights right at 600 and a bull calf that weaned off at 799 (no creep)...
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Several of the "Juan" sired calves... The bull in the front I believe is out of Galpin Miss Lead On 561 789 #15838109
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Re: Sinclair Rito Legacy

Postby gizmom » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:03 am

Oldtimer

Really nice looks like Juan is doing you a great job! I love little cows that can wean off that kind of calf, just goes to show she has the most important tool maternal power. I really like the herd sire he is the total package.

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Re:

Postby southernblues » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:28 pm

badroute wrote:I recently purchased a few bulls from a breeder that has never waivered from using the older bloodlines. These bulls are chalk full of red meat and moderate in frame. I figure these bulls will sire some very functional cattle that add weight in the form of red meat rather than frame.

The thing about these bulls is their EPD's are not impressive at all. Their WW EPD's are only slightly higher than the milk EPD's of some of the various semen companies top bulls. Their production EPD's are indeed inferior to those of our present day sires but their Maternal EPD's are superior to those of our present day sires.

The question I ask is why are most using Black Angus bulls? Is it to produce superior maternal momma cows as the breed was originally intended, or is it to just to geta black hided calf in order to quench the industrys thirst for black hided calves that grow like weeds.

The two choices, while neither wrong, will definetly require completely different bull types and I'm not sure there is one bull that can accomplish both. It all depends on your priorities.



I did an Internet search on 3R9 and this thread came up from 2007. I've read through and totally agree with this statement. Angus (and Hereford) were meant to be maternal breeds. The modern day marketing is no muscle (mostly fed, fat cattle), too much frame, no efficiency with HIGH milk. In a world when the cow-calf guy is crying about profits...
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Re: Sinclair Rito Legacy

Postby southernblues » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:31 pm

gizmom wrote:We had a 3R9 bull calf born yesterday out of a first calf heifer 11 days early and 58 pounds. He sure works on heifers past experience is limited two pregnancies one 2010 still in the herd expecting her second calf, the other heifer had a set of twins she raised them but they didn't make the cut to stay. I can't remember if we have anymore 3R9's coming this year. We have a grandson of 707 Sinclair Rito 9R9 that we really like, our bull customers sure seem to find his calves.

Image



Gizmom- great looking bull! I'm also betting while he is heifer bull his CED with those old pedigrees is really low??? Just guessing.
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Re: Sinclair Rito Legacy

Postby gizmom » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:48 pm

Southern blues

I meant the 3R9 bull was calving ease, the 9R9 bull pictured was not a calving ease bull. His CED is +1 bw is 2.5. When we purchased him his birth weight EPD was much higher but came down as birthweights were reported. His calves averaged mid to high 70’s at birth, we never used him on heifers he had more shoulder than I will use on a heifer.

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Re: Sinclair Rito Legacy

Postby Mossy Dell » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:25 pm

I don't know how much, if any, Sinclair Rito Legacy's epds changed since this thread was started. Maternal bulls are what I like. But his epds for the first two things I look at, heifer pregnancy and maternal calving ease, really poor. In the 90% and 95% percentile respectively. Hard to get much worse.

For a good-looking maternal black Angus with great low-input epds, I like Bradley Ranch's B3R Back To Basics U077. He is in the top 10% for heifer pregnancy, the top 4% for maternal calving ease, top 1% for docility, birthweight, calving ease direct, and top 10% for $EN. Top 20% for marbling. He makes me want to get into Angus and breed a herd of his daughters:

https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl. ... yzIPVnQ%3d%3
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Re: Sinclair Rito Legacy

Postby Son of Butch » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:48 pm

B3R Back To Basics
https://origenbeef.org/semen_detail.php?bull=10

The proven go to calving ease sire for anyone interested in a frame score 4 bull
he makes small but good easy keeping momma cows
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