Morality vs $$$

Help Support CattleToday:

cfpinz

cfpinz

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
6,681
Reaction score
815
Location
Virginia
I posted a couple months ago about a 4yo hereford cow that had a mild vaginal prolpase, went in on its own. Figured I'd keep her and try to get the last calf out of her before shipping her butt, mistake #1. Since then I've seen her with a small baseball sized protrusion a time or two time that has always went in in under a day. Don't know exact calving date but by time/opportunity she should have calved last month. She lost her plug about a week and a half ago, started springing some Sunday. Came home yesterday she had prolapsed the size of a cantalope. Ran her in the chute, planned on throwing enough stitches in her to hold her til the kill sale this weekend, had enough of her. She was a tight fit, had to hold her butt together while wife reset her. While wife was in there she felt around, found a full term calf which is definately alive. I'm not one of these touchy-feely cow petters, but I can't morally give that calf a death sentence and sleep well about it. The cow is going to slaughter, it's just a matter of when. We put the stitches in shallow enough she could rip them out if we were not around and she tried to have it. She's in a lot where we can watch her and cut them out when needed. She's sprung but knowing the cow personally her udder is not filled yet, looks like another two or three days. I've given some thought to setting up a vet visit last thing Friday for a c-section to save from ruining the vet's and mine weekend and to just be done with it. She'll still need to clean but thinking that relieving some of the pressure would avoid a total wreck. What would you do in this situation?

cfpinz
 
You lost me. A lot of cows prolapse vaginally all the time, bigger as they get closer. They have the calf fine. and live long lives.

A vaginal prolapse is different from a uterine one. :)

You don't need to stitch her up. Leave her be.
 
i agree with cowboyup,c section and sell her or you might walk out and she will have everything out and be laying there dead
 
KMacGinley":2zq07wdc said:
You lost me. A lot of cows prolapse vaginally all the time, bigger as they get closer. They have the calf fine. and live long lives.

A vaginal prolapse is different from a uterine one. :)

Much different, and a whole lot less of a pain to fix. But with my luck she'll blow the whole thing out when she calves.

You don't need to stitch her up. Leave her be.
Click to expand...

She had a cantalope swinging - not normal. She could possibly live a normal life, but I'm not giving her the chance. Why bother with an inferior animal when there's plenty of less troublesome animals to replace her with?

cfpinz
 
CF, you're right to ship her, but with only a cantaloupe sized vaginal prolapse, there is no need to stitch. It'll move out of the way on its own. Bear in mind that any heifers from that cow will be prone to vaginal prolapses as well, so if you've retained heifers from her, watch them.
 
Let her calve on her own, especially so close, and it doesn't seem like calf is in trouble.

She has a lot of pressure on her back end right now... I'm thinking odds are she'll calve, prolapse will be fine as pressure will be relieved.

Keep her for awhile but sell her and/or calf before putting bull out.... or put some burger in your freezer if prices are in the toilet.

Michele
 
If you are really worried about it, you can induce her. We have done it, but only with extreme cases, where the prolapse was getting worse. Lots cheaper than a c-section. We did have one have a uterine prolapse afterwards, but usually we have had them calve with no problems. They don't usually clean right away though if you do induce. We will do it again if needed. Once she has calved, you could let her raise it. Although I certainly would keep her away from the bull, and she would be making a road trip long before next calving season. It is hereditary, and they generally get worse as the cow gets older.
 
cfpinz":2msoqtp1 said:
I posted a couple months ago about a 4yo hereford cow that had a mild vaginal prolpase, went in on its own. Figured I'd keep her and try to get the last calf out of her before shipping her butt, mistake #1. Since then I've seen her with a small baseball sized protrusion a time or two time that has always went in in under a day. Don't know exact calving date but by time/opportunity she should have calved last month. She lost her plug about a week and a half ago, started springing some Sunday. Came home yesterday she had prolapsed the size of a cantalope. Ran her in the chute, planned on throwing enough stitches in her to hold her til the kill sale this weekend, had enough of her. She was a tight fit, had to hold her butt together while wife reset her. While wife was in there she felt around, found a full term calf which is definately alive. I'm not one of these touchy-feely cow petters, but I can't morally give that calf a death sentence and sleep well about it. The cow is going to slaughter, it's just a matter of when. We put the stitches in shallow enough she could rip them out if we were not around and she tried to have it. She's in a lot where we can watch her and cut them out when needed. She's sprung but knowing the cow personally her udder is not filled yet, looks like another two or three days. I've given some thought to setting up a vet visit last thing Friday for a c-section to save from ruining the vet's and mine weekend and to just be done with it. She'll still need to clean but thinking that relieving some of the pressure would avoid a total wreck. What would you do in this situation?

cfpinz
Click to expand...

Hey there - it goes like this.

I believe the advice you are getting on the physical part of this is ok - but perhaps you are looking at the other side of the coin - the morals and ethics we all form as we grow up.

You have a personal code and you want to live up to it. Far as I am concerned what I would do is not the issue. The issue is you living up to your own personal standards.

I for one can respect that. In fact I do respect it. Greatly.

Too bad there are not more people out there who do this. To me that is the type of person I want as a neighbour.

Bottom line I raise cattle - not many any more but a few.

I am in the business of raising them to kill them. But I do not kill needlessly or gratuitously.

This cow is going to die - you have made that decision.

From a financial view point I understand keeping her around to get the calf.

I also understand about keeping her around because you simply do not want the calf to die (putting words in your mouth - hope I am not offending you).

I have shipped bred cows to die before - do not ask me why - but my standards is - I keep the cow and the calf alive if possible - especially if the calf is within about 6 weeks of being born. Before that I will ship if necessary - but not because I want to - it needs to be necessary - pain and so on.

You make the decision and I will stand beside you on it. Why? Because you recognize it is a decision you have to make to live up to your personal standards.

Gotta' like that! Good on ya'.

Bez>
 
Bez>":paush3tq said:
You have a personal code and you want to live up to it. Far as I am concerned what I would do is not the issue. The issue is you living up to your own personal standards.

I for one can respect that. In fact I do respect it. Greatly.

Too bad there are not more people out there who do this. To me that is the type of person I want as a neighbour.


Bez>
Click to expand...

What really POs me is when I put them in the kill pen for a reason and some jerk buys them at killer prices then hauls them home to sell to some unsuspecting person. I wonder what kind of moral standards those kinds were brought p with, if any.

dun
 
dun":1go8cg1d said:
Bez>":1go8cg1d said:
You have a personal code and you want to live up to it. Far as I am concerned what I would do is not the issue. The issue is you living up to your own personal standards.

I for one can respect that. In fact I do respect it. Greatly.

Too bad there are not more people out there who do this. To me that is the type of person I want as a neighbour.


Bez>
Click to expand...

What really POs me is when I put them in the kill pen for a reason and some jerk buys them at killer prices then hauls them home to sell to some unsuspecting person. I wonder what kind of moral standards those kinds were brought p with, if any.

dun
Click to expand...

How do I argue with that?

Then again I have mentioned very recently to someone else on this board that I believed it to be immoral to ship his cow to the sale barn.

I noticed I did not receive an answer to this comment.

Therefore I will not mention who it was.

Bez>
 
The way I look at it, I'm just taking a gamble with her salvage value, around $600. I'm willing to pay the vet for a c-section if necessary, but any other work will be done by my personal vet assistant (wife) and her underpaid, abused helper (me). If the cow wasn't so close it wouldn't be much of a decision, but I just don't want that calf's blood on my hands. Also, if someone can't afford to lose $600 for the right reasons they need to do something else.

By the way, we've decided to leave her be, and let her have a go on her own. The stitches will be cut when her bag starts filling. Found a bottle of oxytocin this evening that I didn't know I had, she might get a squirt this weekend as I'll be here to oversee hopefully.

Thanks to all

cfpinz
 
cfpinz":2w5190o5 said:
The way I look at it, I'm just taking a gamble with her salvage value, around $600. I'm willing to pay the vet for a c-section if necessary, but any other work will be done by my personal vet assistant (wife) and her underpaid, abused helper (me). If the cow wasn't so close it wouldn't be much of a decision, but I just don't want that calf's blood on my hands. Also, if someone can't afford to lose $600 for the right reasons they need to do something else.

By the way, we've decided to leave her be, and let her have a go on her own. The stitches will be cut when her bag starts filling. Found a bottle of oxytocin this evening that I didn't know I had, she might get a squirt this weekend as I'll be here to oversee hopefully.

Thanks to all

cfpinz
Click to expand...

DO NOT give oxytocin to a very pregnant cow. This may cause no end of problems if you start the uterus contracting without the cervix being open/dilated. Oxytocin is not a safe induction drug.

Shipping them in the last month of pregnancy could well be illegal without a veterinary exam prior to the truck ride (it is here in NZ). If she calved in transit or at the saleyards etc you would be in trouble I would expect on welfare grounds.

If she were mine I would keep a close eye on her and let her calve naturally. Her prolapse needs to be in for her to go into labour properly and for the cervix to dilate.
Call a vet at the first sign of problems (assuming there is one available nearby)
 
cowvet":3kbsyf0h said:
DO NOT give oxytocin to a very pregnant cow. This may cause no end of problems if you start the uterus contracting without the cervix being open/dilated. Oxytocin is not a safe induction drug.

Thank you for correcting me. I've never induced one before, but we've used the oxy to help them clean. Don't know where from, but I got the notion in my head it would induce.

Shipping them in the last month of pregnancy could well be illegal without a veterinary exam prior to the truck ride (it is here in NZ). If she calved in transit or at the saleyards etc you would be in trouble I would expect on welfare grounds.

If she were mine I would keep a close eye on her and let her calve naturally. Her prolapse needs to be in for her to go into labour properly and for the cervix to dilate.

Call a vet at the first sign of problems (assuming there is one available nearby)
Click to expand...

Talked to our vet today and gave him a heads up that he might get a call from us. I don't like surprises, I would assume neither does he.

cfpinz
 
We had a 3 year herf prolapse her vagina and she too was also close to calving.... but when?
We took her to the vet and he repaired the mess stitching her up good and gave her a shot of DMSO ( I beleive). He instructed us to cut the stitches near the end of 48 hours as that is approx when she should calve according to the effects of the shot.
I don't remember the exact hours it was, but we removed the stitches and the next morning there was a calf on the ground.
She won't prolapse again without a full term baby in there so we let her raise the calf to weaning.
When we shipped her in the fall, we marked the manifest 'slaughter only', and they announce that during the sale. In fact we always mark our culls as slaughter only.
 
dun":d9e12bya said:
What really POs me is when I put them in the kill pen for a reason and some jerk buys them at killer prices then hauls them home to sell to some unsuspecting person. I wonder what kind of moral standards those kinds were brought p with, if any.

dun
Click to expand...

Where and who are the unsuspecting people who buy these cattle, and how long is it they remain unsuspecting? :lol:
 
AngusLimoX":rnvl7c2q said:
dun":rnvl7c2q said:
What really POs me is when I put them in the kill pen for a reason and some jerk buys them at killer prices then hauls them home to sell to some unsuspecting person. I wonder what kind of moral standards those kinds were brought p with, if any.

dun
Click to expand...

Where and who are the unsuspecting people who buy these cattle, and how long is it they remain unsuspecting? :lol:
Click to expand...

Beginners that aren't to sure of what they're doing so they buy from an "established" producer. They're unaware that the producer is buying at sle barns as kill cows and reselling them. They remain unsuspecting till they get home and realize they've had the fid slipped to them.
 
dun":1uwwi2xf said:
They remain unsuspecting till they get home and realize they've had the fid slipped to them.
Click to expand...

Yep, can't see any way that would be right. At least if you buy at the barn you know it's there for a reason, and some of us go farther and make sure something we know has a problem is identified, like putting them in the kill pen, or announcing them as a fence buster.

I guess the way I look at it is treat folks the way you would like to be treated, not "how it is often done". The folks who pull stunts like dun said are sleazebags, no way they can have any self respect.

You are good people cfpinz, cattle knowledge, great sense of humour, and morality to boot.
:lol: :lol:
 
She's starting to bag and I won't be here tomorrow, so we cut her stitches out this evening. We'll see.

cfpinz
 

Similar threads

F
Vitaferm vs Western?
Replies
19
Views
1K
Dave
D
A
Actual carcass ultrasound vs carcass EPD
Replies
8
Views
560
Stickney94
Stickney94
K
Fall vs Spring
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
Muletrack
Muletrack
B
Spring calving vs fall calving
2
Replies
25
Views
5K
Steve123
S
J
Bull vs heifer weight
Replies
15
Views
9K
littletom
L

Latest posts

Top