2023's Animal versus Feed Breakdown, How am I doing? Suggestions

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TexasRancher

TexasRancher

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This is the end of my 4th year in cattle, Schedule F 2023 completed, I believe i did well, considering the drought year...first 3 years in cattle I was heavy-on infrastructure for two farms and did not turn a profit. I don't have much steel or equipment so my costs are lower. Levers- ramps...roll hay bales down the feeder chute...you know the story, I am the tractor and the bulldozer.

Anyway....completing Form F, you see things that are good and other things where there's room for improvement. I believe I did really well on feed for 2023. I'm going to open it up for suggestions. Let me know what you think. Remember I live right on the Dallas county line...we don't have the easy locational access to grain feed plants/sales that fortunate folks in the country have.

I had wanted to purchase 50 bales of cut-corn stalk hay for $2,000. ($40./bale) in October but it just didn't happen they wanted $50./bale and I waited them out and they lowered their price to $40. I'm happy i waited...because i found out...how well my cattle ate the lambs-quarter down in the fall and being it was a mild winter thus far they mostly grazed. I didn't need 50 bales.

Here's the 2023 Animal versus feed breakdown:

I have 7 angus cows and 3 almost grown angus heifers (call it 10 cows) and one angus bull ...11 permanent cattle, with calves that come and go to sale. My cattle are all healthy with good weight, good fat...only two cows run thin...genetic during calving, but they calf better than the fatter cows.

Feed for 2023: 22 bales of corn hay at $40. or $880., 50 bags of deer corn 40lbs -$8.99,=$360., 150 bags of 50lbs 20% Cattle cubes $11.79=$1,768.50

Total feed costs....right at $3,000./year in 2023. excludes dewormer and tubs. I also have access to free expired potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots, cucumbers, lettuce, cabbage, cut-up squash & watermelons throughout the year

So running the calculations just on the 11 kept cattle (excluding calves up to weening)= $3,000./365/11= I have 75 cents/day per cow & bull, note some of this (% feed) is being eaten buy unweaned calves to be sold

Is 75 cents/cow reasonable? What would you do differently? I cube year round every two to three-sometimes 4 days...and cube and corn heavily in winter. This winter has been a dream...40 acre pasture still green today. In a week or two when we hit 18 degree F, it'll go brown and dormant.

My only speculation would be to cut cattle cubes to 80 per year and feed more $40. corn stalk bales....but the protein in cattle cubes can't be matched....and i can buy almost 4 bags of it versus one round bale. I know I'll be hearing "buy regular HAY, it's better than filler" but that's $100./ to $140. /bale here. Tell me the reasons how expensive hay pans out financially better for me? I'm no expert, 1st generation with no former cattle experience but i haven't tried it...it scares me. All cattle producers around me are using corn stalk too. Cows get fat on corn stalk! Had overly fat cows in 2020/21.

First 3 years i didn't care about financials. Now I'm tuning up my cattle production.....focusing on the financials. As Caustic Burno says…does it pencil out? What I'm doing? Had lots of fun learning and fencing fun these past 4 years. Each year I make cattle care easier on myself....but now, I'm focusing on the financials. End goal is for the cows to pay for their upkeep and for our yearly property taxes- that'd be on our house too.
 
You have 40 acres of pasture and 11 cattle? I'm not sure of the composition of your pasture, but where I am you can pretty much support 1 animal with two acres and very little supplemental feeding. However, you get to some areas in the west and it takes 15 acres per animal. That would be on rangeland. The one animal to two acres I'm talking Bermuda or fescue with overseeding of winter annuals. If your pasture is divided, it should support more animals than what you have......I think. Not positive unless I see the pasture. You might want to consider setting up a rotational grazing system if you don't have that.

The lamb's quarters is great stuff! Most people just consider it a weed (in their garden). It's actually a highly nutritious forb.
 
Something to investigate, is getting liquid feed (protein). You can eliminate the tubs and cut way back on the cubes. You can use the cubes just to keep them coming to you and getting them in the working pen or trailer.
 
Mark Reynolds said:
You have 40 acres of pasture and 11 cattle? I'm not sure of the composition of your pasture, but where I am you can pretty much support 1 animal with two acres and very little supplemental feeding. However, you get to some areas in the west and it takes 15 acres per animal. That would be on rangeland. The one animal to two acres I'm talking Bermuda or fescue with overseeding of winter annuals. If your pasture is divided, it should support more animals than what you have......I think. Not positive unless I see the pasture. You might want to consider setting up a rotational grazing system if you don't have that.

The lamb's quarters is great stuff! Most people just consider it a weed (in their garden). It's actually a highly nutritious forb.
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In his area 1 animal per 2 acres isnt happening. He is in TX. West.of him it becomes 1 unit for 50 to 100 acres.
 
I know hay is much easier to buy around here, but how is 200 lbs of cubes cheaper than a 1000 lb round bale ( just an average bale weight I made up)? That hay will go a lot further. Again, I know we're in a totally different area up here. But I don't know of any beef cattle here that are given anything beyond hay and grass. Whether its a 40 degree winter day or -10, its hay or snowballs. Frankly, most of the hay is mediocre too.
 
My primary lease pastures are $1.09/head per day. I use that figure for my own pasture as well. Some leases are cheaper, but have costs to haul and check them. Ten months grazing is $330/head per year. One ton of hay is $200 to feed the other two months. Total cost is $530/head not counting time, machinery, repairs. That's $1.45/head per day.
 
kenny thomas said:
In his area 1 animal per 2 acres isnt happening. He is in TX. West.of him it becomes 1 unit for 50 to 100 acres.
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Due to calving and weaning...I can have up to 21 animals...but it'll usually run 16...it's enough for 40 acres, land is divided...i try to save fall forage....get to Dec 15th before the first corn bale needs to arrive.
The good news is the pastureland grows good, pretty fertile....also holds the water when it rains. Someone years ago grooved and dished the land, so not only is there more surface area for grazng and it contains and holds water in the dips. I don't know what they call it when they row and purposely dish out the land..create bumpiness to hold water. Maybe someone in here knows.
 
M.Magis said:
I know hay is much easier to buy around here, but how is 200 lbs of cubes cheaper than a 1000 lb round bale ( just an average bale weight I made up)? That hay will go a lot further. Again, I know we're in a totally different area up here. But I don't know of any beef cattle here that are given anything beyond hay and grass. Whether its a 40 degree winter day or -10, its hay or snowballs. Frankly, most of the hay is mediocre too.
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Well...4 bags of cubes 50 lbs...200lbs is $47.12, corn bale 1,000lbs is $40. BUT WAIT....Now take into consideration grain is two times dense so that 200lbs of cubes is like 400lbs of forage...cattle dont waste cubes. That $40. corn bale...probably 35% is wasted (fertilizer). So i get basically 400lbs of cattle cube/forage for $47.12, and i get 650lbs of corn hay eatable that costs me $61.53.
Hope you can see my math, what i'm doing. I have better control of cattle cubes when i go to purchase them...store always open...with the hay producer...he's not open but for three days a week and his prices are higher during cutting-processing $50./bale.
I do know what you're saying...cattleman tell me the same thing...hay is cheaper than cattle cubes...but is it really? I just see a wash at best...either way the costs will be the same....and I like the convenience of cattle cubes and whole corn over supplemental hay.
 
GoWyo said:
My primary lease pastures are $1.09/head per day. I use that figure for my own pasture as well. Some leases are cheaper, but have costs to haul and check them. Ten months grazing is $330/head per year. One ton of hay is $200 to feed the other two months. Total cost is $530/head not counting time, machinery, repairs. That's $1.45/head per day.
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Negating your time (as farmers always need to do), if you don't have too many repairs-maintenance...$1.45 per day that's $530 a year...calves, their feed cost for 6 to 9 months..upon sale will be worth enough to cover that.
I'm beginning to understand it's all about feed costs to turn a profit...does any farm, any location offer the ability to feed cattle for 50 cents a day? Even if you are a producer of hay and cattle...you still have costs to make those bales.
Someone take me back to 1900 to 1940...how did they feed and sell cattle....why does it seem more profitable back then than it is today? or is it all relative and they had a difficult time too? What's changed the most?
Does anyone have a breakdown, showing feed cow/calf costs versus calving sales...where at $1.85/day (whatever the number is) no profit can be made on calf sales? A chart where it shows optimum feed costs for optimum profits...where most cattle producers are.
 
Mountaintown Creek Ranch said:
We have just over $2 a head per day. That includes feed, hay, protein tub, minerals. Does not include any medications.
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That seems high MCR...would you care sharing how you turn a profit on calf sales? You might be getting $2,500. a head on sales in bigger groups or have a huge cattle operations in the hundreds...I'm getting $1,400. a head at sale. If my costs were $2. a day $730. per year. I guess i could still turn a profit...but my weaning program would have to be harsh, breed back would have to more regimented-unnatural. If i didn't get a calf every year, in that year, for every cow...i'd be taking a beating. I'm too lax with my cattle...I believe you are on top of everything like clockwork. How many head do yu run?
 
TexasRancher said:
That seems high MCR...would you care sharing how you turn a profit on calf sales? You might be getting $2,500. a head on sales in bigger groups or have a huge cattle operations in the hundreds...I'm getting $1,400. a head at sale. If my costs were $2. a day $730. per year. I guess i could still turn a profit...but my weaning program would have to be harsh, breed back would have to more regimented-unnatural. If i didn't get a calf every year, in that year, for every cow...i'd be taking a beating. I'm too lax with my cattle...I believe you are on top of everything like clockwork. How many head do yu run?
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If you are in the "cattle business", you MUST get 1 calf per year out of every cow. So, yes, you must be more lax than most.
I am in a position to be able to hold onto a cow that has a dead calf. 1 heifer calf out of any cow can pay for several cows yearly expense + profit. But, I am not a commercial operation - they need every cow to hold up her end of the expenses.
You are having fun, enjoying a small herd. That is great. And, it's good you are trying to see a profit.
 
TexasRancher, I believe what you are describing with the grooves is a terrace. Left over from the days when cotton was king. There are 2 things that I would add to what you are doing - 1) subdivide and rotationally graze your pastures and 2) overseed some ryegrass in one of your divided up pastures (choosing a different pasture each year). Limit graze the ryegrass as a source of protein from mid December to March 1 then let them have it full time. Don't worry about letting it go to seed as that will shade your summer grass.
 
TexasRancher said:
Well...4 bags of cubes 50 lbs...200lbs is $47.12, corn bale 1,000lbs is $40. BUT WAIT....Now take into consideration grain is two times dense so that 200lbs of cubes is like 400lbs of forage...cattle dont waste cubes. That $40. corn bale...probably 35% is wasted (fertilizer). So i get basically 400lbs of cattle cube/forage for $47.12, and i get 650lbs of corn hay eatable that costs me $61.53.
Hope you can see my math, what i'm doing. I have better control of cattle cubes when i go to purchase them...store always open...with the hay producer...he's not open but for three days a week and his prices are higher during cutting-processing $50./bale.
I do know what you're saying...cattleman tell me the same thing...hay is cheaper than cattle cubes...but is it really? I just see a wash at best...either way the costs will be the same....and I like the convenience of cattle cubes and whole corn over supplemental hay.
Click to expand...
I understand exactly what you are saying here. I'm going to urge caution here because you aren't considering nutritional content of the feed, which makes ALL the difference in forage. Consider this: If the nutritional content of hay is poor enough (and I've seen this) You can starve an animal with a full rumen. Conversely, you can have cattle so short on volume of forage and are 'hungry' to the point they are eating wooden fence posts, crates, stalls, trailers, etc..... but you are feeding the animal a small amount of nutrient rich forage, it's getting pretty much everything it needs.
 
We figure in most all the costs to be charged against a cow... it is costing in the neighborhood of $2.00/ day to keep a cow. That is figuring everything... feed/pasture value/vaccs/vet costs.... hay bale value. So around $700-750 per year per cow costs. She has to produce a calf a year... right now value on the calves is good... we averaged in the $1200-1500 range for calves sold... taking into account for heifers vs steers and weights of 4-550 lbs... at $2.25 to 2.75 / pound. Normal years when calf prices weren't so good we figured $700-1000 per calf realized in sales. They barely paid to keep the cow for the year. Our labor is free..... We kept a good number of calves back, weaned, to feed silage to and will be selling the first group next month... they will weigh in the 650-800 range I guess.. I haven't looked close at them... son will have a friend come and they will go through and "grade them" here and put together a few groups.... There are about 75-80 calves on feed this year... more than we have ever kept...there are heifers in there and some will be put out to pasture for replacements since we only kept 5 total last year... haven't been buying too many replacement cows since they have been high... but we had the silage and it is 2 yrs in the bunk so needs feeding.... son buys odd singles and such at the sales when he can, mostly bulls, and we work them and put them on feed and can add to the size of some groups.
We used to trailer wean and had 5-15 calves to sell at a time... had to get bigger to generate the cash flow for when he bought the first farm...then when he bought the 2nd farm from the widow of the friend that passed away, after renting for 8 years, we HAD to have enough animals to make the payments.
Sometimes I wish we were still smaller... but the cattle sale checks are paying for payments on the 2 farms, and for the expenses of running them... if he didn't have a full time off the farm job, he wouldn't be able to pay for his house and live a decent life... I have had a full time job for 40 years +.... to pay for my own housing... and it was never a high paying job but I got by... now the money from my cattle sales is "extra" for me... in retirement years...
 
Mark Reynolds said:
I understand exactly what you are saying here. I'm going to urge caution here because you aren't considering nutritional content of the feed, which makes ALL the difference in forage. Consider this: If the nutritional content of hay is poor enough (and I've seen this) You can starve an animal with a full rumen. Conversely, you can have cattle so short on volume of forage and are 'hungry' to the point they are eating wooden fence posts, crates, stalls, trailers, etc..... but you are feeding the animal a small amount of nutrient rich forage, it's getting pretty much everything it needs.
Click to expand...
Here is something to think about, and ask questions. Once you understand this, what I just said will make a little more sense. You already know this, but you have to make a conscious effort to alter your thinking to think in terms of a ruminant, which cows are, instead of monogastric, which we are.

When you feed 'cattle', you aren't really feeding the cattle. Instead, you are feeding the microflora and microfauna or bacterial soup that is housed in the vat referred to as the rumen. the cattle actually get their nutrition form this soup, not the feed you supply to them. Not directly anyway.
 

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