i read in sim talk a new sync program where you leave the cidr in for 5 days and 2 shots of prostaglandin the second 2 hours after the first says they get 10% better conception on heifiers using this just wondering if anyone has tried this method.
5 day cidr program
- Thread starter bse
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novaman
Well-known member
I've never used this program. It seems to me this was mentioned several months ago and still sounds nutz, at least to me. I don't understand what you gain by giving prostaglandin 2 hours apart. If it worked two hours ago the second shot will do nothing. If it didn't work 2 hours ago what would have changed in that small of a time span? Further if your using Estrumate it is advertised that it has a half-life of 3 hours whereas (according to Estrumate's ad) Lutalyse is only a couple minutes. Personally I would skip the CIDR and give all the heifers prostaglandin. Breed anything that comes into heat. Give the ones that didn't come into heat the second shot of prostaglandin at 7-11 days after the first shot and breed anything coming into heat. Theoretically you should get every animal to come into heat within a time span of about 15 or 16 days max. You would save yourself the cost of the CIDR and should have some good strong heats with very good conception rates. The only thing you are losing is maybe 8 or 9 days when using your CIDR protocol. I have used CIDR's the past 2 years and was very disappointed with the results. Others have reported success. Use the information as you will, it's just my 2 cents.
thanks for the reply novaman im not able to just watch for heat so i have to sync them to narrow the window i use timed A.I. and patch them so i know and can kinda plan my scedule. but im with you on the 2 shots of prostiglandin not sure how it works (better) but the 10% increase on heifiers caught my eye.
The 5 day CIDR protocol is one of several protocols shown here:
http://bovine-elite.com/estrus.asp
I've used it for heifers. It works well.
http://bovine-elite.com/estrus.asp
I've used it for heifers. It works well.
pdfangus
Well-known member
The two shots are not 2 hours apart.
I have not yet used it but If I recall correctly the two shots are 12 hours apart.
the research for this new protocol so far has been very promising in terms of conceptions.
I have not yet used it but If I recall correctly the two shots are 12 hours apart.
the research for this new protocol so far has been very promising in terms of conceptions.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
The shots or 8 hours + or - 2 hours ---- so 6-10 hours apart.pdfangus":17r58uu1 said:
novaman
Well-known member
I guess I'm surprised there is a noticeable difference. Any ideas why a shot 6-10 hours apart would make a difference physiologically? I understand where a TAI would be necessary for bse and others that can't observe heats but for those that could observe heats, what would be the advantage of using this sync program? I would hate to run heifers through the chute 4 times just to get 1 breeding.whitecow":wwuof3f8 said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
:clap: :clap:
Yes, it does mean a lot of times through the chute, but the higher preg rates and the way the schedule fits with my availability at the farm means its worth it for us. We've used this protocol a couple of times to AI heifers and several times to sync recips. I can help Dad gather up all of the girls and put the CIDRs in on the weekend. He pulls the CIDRs and gives shots at the appropriate times during the week. I am there on the next weekend to AI or 2 weekends later to transfer embryos. It is a lot of handling but so far so good for us.
im definetly gonna use it on my hiefiers this fall i like what everyone is saying about the better conception rates. a friend of mine done a little expieriment on cows tried the 5 day with one shot of lut didnt work to well. thanks for all your replys and like i said ill be using this in the fall.
novaman
Well-known member
Be sure to let us know how it turns out for you. I've grown to dislike CIDR's but if everybody is having the success they are claiming and you back that up, I may have to reconsider.bse":2v0pvcuw said:
ive been using cidrs for a couple of years now with great sucess at least getting them in heat and syncronized which is the only way i can get them done ive only used the 10 day tai with the 7 day cidr but i do use 7cc lut on cows instead of 5cc. then i do watch for heat and breed am or pm.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I have GREAT success getting cattle to cycle (show heat). But, I DON'T have much success as far as conception. CIDR's definately make them cycle, but they may not have a viable egg.
novaman
Well-known member
Well than lets work together because my problem is the exact opposite.Jeanne - Simme Valley":3qjooisa said:
pdfangus
Well-known member
I only have a few cows now so what I can do and what I would advise are two different things.
I am going to try the 6G6 protocol on my cows and heifers this fall.
here is a link to an article about it that describes it.
I just do not like CIDRS and I like the 6G6 because I have in herd proof that presynchrony enhances conceptions and this is basically a presynchrony and synchrony program.
http://www.dairyherd.com/repro.asp?ts=ra2&pgID=724&ed_id=6818
I am going to try the 6G6 protocol on my cows and heifers this fall.
here is a link to an article about it that describes it.
I just do not like CIDRS and I like the 6G6 because I have in herd proof that presynchrony enhances conceptions and this is basically a presynchrony and synchrony program.
http://www.dairyherd.com/repro.asp?ts=ra2&pgID=724&ed_id=6818
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Jim, I agree this looks like a better program - but COSTLY!
They hit on the problem with CIDRS,the follicles can get OLD (stale). ---"The younger, yet mature follicle should be more fertile, which should increase conception rates". With the CIDR, the cow's follicle is essentially "put on hold" til you pull the CIDR, so when she ovulates she comes into a good standing heat, but the egg isn't "fresh" enough to get fertilized.
Kinda like a fertilized chicken egg that sat around for a while, then you try to incubate it --- Doesn't hatch because it gets too old.
They hit on the problem with CIDRS,the follicles can get OLD (stale). ---"The younger, yet mature follicle should be more fertile, which should increase conception rates". With the CIDR, the cow's follicle is essentially "put on hold" til you pull the CIDR, so when she ovulates she comes into a good standing heat, but the egg isn't "fresh" enough to get fertilized.
Kinda like a fertilized chicken egg that sat around for a while, then you try to incubate it --- Doesn't hatch because it gets too old.
greatgerts
Well-known member
tncattle467":1f6th56w said:
Having that happen is really not THAT uncommon. I've seen it numerous times. Why do you have cows calve in 18 months instead of 12? That just seems like too long for a cow to be open to be profitable.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
WHY do we even read his remarks????
