Depressed bull??

[colleen]

Can a bull become depressed to the point where they stay away from the herd, lose weight? We have 2 yearlings that we have separated from our bull. He cared a lot but has given up. Acts like he is sick, but has been tested, vaccinated etc. he hangs his head down and face out towards the back of the pasture. Lays around a lot. Used to come running if he heard a feed bucket. He will come up but my husband has to go outto him and coax him up with feed. He's lost weight. He is getting over an abscess he got in oct. from a snake bite. Still drools. His eyes are a little crusty. Doesn't seem to have a fever. Nose is wet, poop is good.
Could he really just be depressed and appear to feel bad? Need opinions! Thank you,
Colleen.

 

[colleen]

Also the vet said, Sometimes when a bull can kiss thru the fence but can't do his job, he will get depressed. He acts sick and we are worried but he's had tests, antibiotics etc in dec. he has also had several rounds of immunity and appetite boosters that seemed to work at the time but the Last week or 2 he just seems to be feeling bad again.

 

[Gale Seddon]

With all that appears to be going on with this bull, including the snake bite (venomous?), I would certainly have your vet -- or better yet a different vet (because it sounds to me as if the first vet doesn't give a horse's patootie) -- out to do a complete physical on this animal -- blood, fecal, etc. Something is not quite right! Write down a brief summary of dates, treatments, vaccinations, etc., to give to the vet and find out if this animal has a chance at recovering fully. I'm quick to get a vet involved, but that is what I would do.

 

[colleen]

Thank you. We do plan on doing that. He's a good vet but too busy, always in a hurry. This has been going on since October. Had a fever. Came out, fecal showed flukes, blood was normal. No diarrhea. He looked in mouth, and listened to stomach. Said his rumen cud be irritated, but sounded fine. Gave him banamine and something for immunity and appetite. Also gave him exceed for respiratory, just in case. Came back next day, gave ivermec plus, vet along,dexamethasone. Next day he had huge hot lump on jaw. Wasn't from injections, so said snake bite,prolly copperhead. Injected with vetalog. Came back week later, drained and rinsed with iodine. Bull immediately had a reaction to iodine and it swoll up. We rinsed and cleaned for a few weeks. After thanksgiving, gave 2nd ivermec plus for flukes and also vision 8(clostridial) and virashield 6+VL5. Next day, sick again. Vet came back. Said probably a reaction to one of those. Can't remember which one now. He gave him more shots for appetite and immunity. Said he was almost afraid to stick him in the behind anymore! Said to call if he didn't improve. This was before christmas. Can't say he is any better. Depressed for sure. Not eating like he did. Crusty eyes. Not terrible tho. Stays away from herd all day in the same exact spot. Doesn't look when u call his name. He is very friendly. He likes alot of attention and right now he cant come up close because we have 2 lttle heifers in front lot in and out of heat. He is a Registered simbrah and we do not want to lose him! Fine bull, but guessing a little delicate...LOL. We have not called vet back because we are just watching him and making him come up and eat a little feed every other day but he is losing weight. So our neighbor has his vet coming in next week from another town and we are going to get him to check him out. I'm just worried bcuz when we tried last time to get him in the chute he wouldn't go and he started panting really hard and rapidly. My husband didnt want him to have a heart attack or something so we let itgo. We were just going to try and rinse out the abscess one more time. (really small now) but still there. He is pretty Leary of getting in the chute now and can't say that I blame him. Lots of shots, rinsings and nose pliers! We are fed up too! Still drools quite a bit, vet says cuz of abscess sitting on salivary gland. Worried he missed something in mouth, but he can chew cud, feed and hay. Well, thanks for advice. Maybe you will catch something we have missed. Will update once new vet comes.
Thank you,
Colleen.

 

[colleen]

In that post vet along is supposed to be vetalog. Darn spell check!

 

[Anonymous]

Time to have the vet back out. Sounds like he is doing what most would do and in a timely manner. Sometime they can miss something or something new develops as a result of the first issue.
And sometimes no matter what you do you lose em

 

[Gale Seddon]

Sounds to me like he's using every drug on his truck. By any chance, is this a small animal vet? I ask because hardly anyone gives an injection in the rump anymore, and I think Vetalog is used mostly on pets. Why are you only feeding him every other day instead of every day?

Yes, as Hook says, sometimes you lose them anyway, but I hope the other vet will be able to determine what's wrong with this bull and get him going in the right direction.

 

[colleen]

He is a large animal doctor. Hes actually very good one.just the bull has reacted negative to all the shots he has been given. Hence the joke about not wanting to stick him anymore because he gets worse. All shots were high on the neck in the muscle or subcutaneous. Only thing done in rump was blood drawn and temp. The vetalog was for the abscess. Other antibiotics were just general because nothing showed up in blood . One was banamine other was exceed(respir.). Also, we had been trying not to give as much feed because we tend to overdue the grain and didn't want to cause more problems if he rumen is irritated. He has unlimited hay and mineral. But I called vet this morning and told him he isn't eating as much, lost weight etc. still has abscess but it's much smaller. He may have to cut that open and scrape out he said but for now he wants to try giving him antibiotics, and something for his blood in feed. (donot remember what that was) Also some probios and see how he responds to that. Praying This helps. He will eat, he just needs coaxing. Used to he would run to the bucket and he is obviously under the weather, possibly a low grade temp from time to time. Not active. Moves slow. What is a depressed temp? Is it a below normal temp?

 

[Gale Seddon]

Well, Colleen, I'm not a vet. But if he were my bull, I'd still get a 2nd opinion as soon as I could. I think that's really all I can say at this point, but I hope you'll let us know the outcome!

 

[chippie]

I am not a vet either, but I suspect that he has liver damage from the flukes. Were any tests done to check his liver?

 

[colleen]

He was checked 6 months before and he had none. I think that when he was sick and immunity was low he was given several vaccinations and they made him sicker. I'm thinking it weakened him. I don't know either but at the moment he is at his worst and I don't think he can handle being roughed up in the chute and have some one guess at what is wrong with him and that kill him. At wits end.

 

[dun]

Poison will depress the temperature. If in fact he was bitten by a commperhead the poison throughout his system may be causing a lot of the issues. We used to lose a couple of calves a year in the fall that had fang marks in their necks or jaws. All we could figure out was that the wather being cooler caused the rattlers to snuggle up to something warm and when they moved the snakes struck.

 

[colleen]

I see. Well the bite is just a guess. Vet didn't show us any marks. Thats what he thought it was. Are abcesses always at the site where an injection was placed or could this abcess on his jawbone be from an antibiotic shot that was given up high near his hump in the muscle? If u put your finger on the end of your jaw right in front of your ear, that is where the bulls abcess is. It has gone down but it's still there and it's about 2 inches wide. Had since first week in oct. and then when his immunity was low and he felt bad he was given his yearly vaccinations and the next day he was sick again. Maybe vet should have waited. Said he was having a reaction to one of those.

 

[colleen]

Going back over the list of meds he got.oct.6-banamine, catasol, excede, oct. 7-boluses, ivermec plus, vetalog , and dexamethasone. Week later oct. 15- he got another shot of vetalog/gentocin. Oct. 21-drained abscess. Dec. 5- yearly vacc.-vision 8 (clostridial) and vira shield 6+VL5. Next day he had fever and has not really been up to par since. Vet Came out a week before Christmas and gave shot to boost immunity and appetite.
Lots of steroids and antiinflammatories but the only antibiotic I see is the exceed which is for brd and pneumonias, foot rot etc. Could it be one of the vaccines weakened him more? I think he needs some more antibiotics maybe for that abscess he is still fighting and another blood test to check for liver damage or anemia. We started oral antibiotics in feed tonight but he didnt eat much at all. Gave a fecal today but wasn't much to it. Very hard and not much there.

 

[chippie]

Not checked for flukes. Did the vet run any blood tests to check his liver function and his thyroid?

 

[colleen]

Checked and treated for flukes. He did bloodwk today. Gave blouses, antibiotics and something to boost immunity. He said his rumen sounds just fine. No temp. Looked in his mouth and throat. Everything looks fine. He said the lump on his jaw is just scar tissue now, but it is possible that that abscess could still be causing a problem but next option would be to cut open and scrape out and he does not want to do that yet. Have to try and get him to eat yogurt in his feed. Not confident that a powder has live culture. Won't touch the food that is doctored though. Vet is coming back tomorrow too. Hoping it all works out. He literally could stand in the same place all day long without ever moving. Obviously weak and feels bad. Maybe the bloodwk. Will show something that can be fixed. I know that a humans liver is the only organ that can heal itself. I wonder if cattle are the same? Flukes are common here and most ranchers don't even bother with them. I know my fathers old cows and bull had them and they were all about 14 or 15 when we brought them to the sale barn last year. Never any health issues. All of them are different I guess. Vet did say we may be dealing with something related to the flukes. They are tricky little monsters. Its very confusing. Read alot about them and still dont understand why with the droughts we have that they are so rampant. blood work will tell how bad he has been affected.
Thank you for your concern. I just need to vent. Hopefully something will help us to figure out what's going on with him. We don't want to lose him!

 

[colleen]

Well, bloodworm just came back...red count slightly low, white is fine. He said it all looked really good. Fecal showed flukes and worms yet again!! Pretty unbeleivable. He was treated in July for flukes and worms, October and first of December. He is coming tomorrow. Treated 3 times with ivermec plus for 2000 lb. bull.

 

[Anonymous]

Time to switch to another wormer. Obvious ivermec isnt working.

 

[colleen]

It is ivermec plus injectable. It works. But there are 2 stages of flukes that need different treatments and also you have to treat right before season changes. Where we live every other week the season changes. Last night it was 38 degrees. Today, by 10 am it was in the 70s. lol. Liver flukes are a tough case to crack. Right now the bull is weak. Gona have to build him up prolly before we treat again. And we are going to have to treat the rest of the cows again. It's more about persistence and getting it under control. Then maintenance. It's kind of confusing to me. Need some good advice from some of you who live in tx who have dealt with flukes, please!!

 

[Anonymous]

Who told you that you have to treat for flukes every time theres a temp swing? Just curious because thats bs. Flukes MAY need to be treated more often in extremely wet climates or seasons. Main thin is ivomec plus has 2 dose rates. One for adult flukes and one for adult and larval flukes. Sounds like the larval flukes survived. If your vet insists on sticking with ivomec plus, make sure he uses the full dose to catch the larval and not the half dose for adults only.
Are you grazing him in a wet area? Thats a contrubiting factor for flukes too