heifer not losing all of after birth

[redangus]

I have a 1st calf heifer that did not take her calf. I was checking every 2 hours and the girl left the calf with the sac over it's face. The little girl suffocated.

The momma heifer did not pass all of her afterbirth....it's hanging out about 18 inches. On day 3, after still not losing all of her after birth, I gave the heifer 5cc lutylace and 50cc of LA 200. Today is day 5. She still hasn't lost it. Can she still pass it on her own?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

have you palpated her there might be another calf too big are malpresentation or she needs to be cleaned out by hand

 

[milkmaid]

She can and may pass it on her own...personally, if it isn't too hard to get her caught, I'd go with four shots of Lutalyse at 12 hour intervals (2 days), and then if she hasn't cleaned by then and still looks healthy, one shot of ECP followed by three or four of 10cc's oxytocin (again, 12hr intervals) will usually work. If she does start looking sick I'd get the vet to come clean her out.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Leave her ALONE. If she does not go off feed or run a fever, let nature take care of her. It has been proven that she will rebreed sooner if you don't do anything.
You have already given her antibiotics - which is a no-no. Antibiotics kill good bugs as well as the bad ones. The good bugs eat away at the attached pieces inside of her, cleaning her out naturally. Lutalyse is a good thing, but I would have waited at least 7-10 days after calving.
I agree she is probably lacking some minerals or nutrition. You can give her a shot of MuSe. But the absense of a calf nursing her also complicates the cleaning process.

 

[certherfbeef]

I have a home remedy that works like a charm.

In a quart jar, mix iodine and water till it looks like real strong tea. Get a 120cc syringe and an AI or ET sheath. Pass the sheath thru cervix and just into the uterous. Let someone that AI's do this for you if you can't. slowly inject the iodine mix into the uterous 120cc's at a time. After the first 120 she will start to contract. After the 2nd 120 she will start to dump stuff in your boots. Not a good place to be right now if you are the weak stomached type.
Infuse the whole quart of iodine mix.

She will be clean cycleing and before you know it.

 

[milkmaid]

That sounds interesting, cert. Only thing we've put IN is 60 to 120cc's of oxytetracycline 100 (or occasionally 200). No milk withdrawal, interestingly enough. No idea on meat withdrawal time or lack of.

Jeanne, I've seen a lot of folks suggest leaving them alone, and I have to wonder if perhaps things are different for dairy cattle vs beef cattle? With these dairy cattle, we'd never consider leaving them alone for 7-10 days before trying anything. Had one come through the barn this morning with diahreaa, and boss checked her for a uterine infection. Yep. I think it's been 3 days since she calved. We infused her, hit her with Excenel and Lutalyse - last cow we had that showed up like this...died. (I'd say secondary complications due to uterine infection - fresh cow with diahreaa from internal infection turned into rumen not working, and, as she was overconditioned at calving, probably also complicated by fatty liver and ketosis. Still, I don't think being ketotic killed her; I'd say it was due to her rumen no longer working.)

But then dairy cattle tend to be under a lot of stress - calving, change in feed, high milk production, etc - things that are so much greater than what your beef cows go through following calving. I haven't ever heard a beef person on here say anything about a cow having a retained placenta following calving and then be checked as "open" or with an infection that fall. But a dairy cow with a retained placenta...uterine infection almost guaranteed, and I've seen them keep that infection for months. Won't get rid of it without help - generally 3 shots of Lutalyse clears a chronic infection.

Comments?

 

[dun]

That sounds interesting, cert. Only thing we've put IN is 60 to 120cc's of oxytetracycline 100 (or occasionally 200). No milk withdrawal, interestingly enough. No idea on meat withdrawal time or lack of.

Jeanne, I've seen a lot of folks suggest leaving them alone, and I have to wonder if perhaps things are different for dairy cattle vs beef cattle? With these dairy cattle, we'd never consider leaving them alone for 7-10 days before trying anything. Had one come through the barn this morning with diahreaa, and boss checked her for a uterine infection. Yep. I think it's been 3 days since she calved. We infused her, hit her with Excenel and Lutalyse - last cow we had that showed up like this...died. (I'd say secondary complications due to uterine infection - fresh cow with diahreaa from internal infection turned into rumen not working, and, as she was overconditioned at calving, probably also complicated by fatty liver and ketosis. Still, I don't think being ketotic killed her; I'd say it was due to her rumen no longer working.)

But then dairy cattle tend to be under a lot of stress - calving, change in feed, high milk production, etc - things that are so much greater than what your beef cows go through following calving. I haven't ever heard a beef person on here say anything about a cow having a retained placenta following calving and then be checked as "open" or with an infection that fall. But a dairy cow with a retained placenta...uterine infection almost guaranteed, and I've seen them keep that infection for months. Won't get rid of it without help - generally 3 shots of Lutalyse clears a chronic infection.

Comments?

The dairys around this area are small potatos, 150 milking or less, but they all leave the cow to clean by herself unless she goes off feed or drops in production. There are only a couple of free stall type dairys around, most the cows are turned out except at milking time. Only a few do TMR, most it's hay and grain either in the parlor or after milking on a feed floor.
Another of those cases of different areas have different methods.

dun

 

[redangus]

Ya know im willing to bet she is deficient in something. Selinium, iodine, something. What kinda minerals you feeding these girls?

I'm feeding a range meal right now and a proteing tub.

 

[GaryDG]

I posted the same message concerning the afterbirth on the cow last year. The general concensus was not to intervene - to leave the cow alone. Watch for obvious infection or temperament change.

In our case, the cow had the afterbirth hanging down to the ground. About 10 days later the afterbirth was gone - she remained healthy throughout the process.

The only problem was personally adjusting to accepting the afterbirth hanging out of the animal.

Good luck!

 

[Limomike]

I agree with Jeanne, leave her alone. nature will take care of that problem. I have seen it over and over again....

 

[bigbull338]

ok the cow hasnt slicked out her afterbirth.you can leave her alone an see if she cleans out.an i would watch her closely an use my nose.if she starts stinking then you have to infuse her like certs said.b/c she has gotten rotten an infected by not cleaning out.if the infection is real bad she may not breed back.but ive never cleaned a beef cow ever.not saying i wont have todo it tho.

 

[milkmaid]

Hey cert...what percent iodine do you use? We have 1% and 1.75% and I think a 0.7%, not sure on the last though. What do you suppose the "what" and "why's" of this remedy are? As in why it would work or what it does to the cow. I'm guessing the iodine stuff burns/stings when it comes in contact with all that sensitive internal tissue which is why she'd start contracting, but I could be wrong. What do you think? I'd just be concerned about it causing tissue damage...iodine ain't easy on any tissue. They rebreed in a reasonable amount of time or not?

As to the mess with 'em vs leave 'em alone discussion...to each his own, I guess. I've just seen a few too many sick cows within days of calving from uterine infections to leave them alone completely. However, I am thinking that beef cows must be different and not have near so many problems post calving, based on these responses.

Any of you beef folks had a cow turn up open and with a uterine infection at fall weaning/preg check? I get the impression the answer to that is...no. :?:

 

[certherfbeef]

Milkmaid, this was an old herf cow. I had to pull the calf and it wasn't a fun one. I'm assuming she didn't clean due the the dystocia.

I used 1% iodine. Started with a little in the bottom of the jar. Added luke warm water till I thought it looked "right" added more iodine and repeated till the jar was full.
I got these instructions over the phone the same time I was told how to sew up my horses leg. Vet would not come out here for less than $80. Now I have no vet in the area and a good embryologist friend that talks me thru any problems I can't solve on my own.

Again, this is a home remedy. As for the iodine burning...I had a nasty gouge on my arm at the time and it didn't even burn that open wound.
I would think that anything foreign would cause contractions.
And around here they have to cycle right quick or they are gone. All are cycleing with in 60 days and bred back right directly after that. She is still here, so there must have been no breeding issues with her that year.

 

[milkmaid]

Thanks cert. Did you have to repeat the treatment in a few days, or was once good enough? And how bad was she to start with - real sick and off feed or not too bad?

 

[certherfbeef]

One treatment was enough. She stunk to high heaven and was off feed.

 

[milkmaid]

Thanks for the help, cert. Appreciate it.

 

[cedar]

feed higher phosphorus mineral 30 days before calving...we have never had a retained placenta in 40 years.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

anybody use those afterbirth boluses?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I have never had one get sick, not saying it can't happen.
While the afterbirth is hanging/dragging out of her, and the weather warms up, yes - she will stink. But, it is not infection, it's the afterbirth rotting.
Retained placentas CAN be caused by lack of nutrition and minerals, but is highly correlated to dystocia, real early/late calving, and twins (have I mentioned I HATE TWINS - just had 3rd set - but all cows cleaned!)
Putting in those uterine boluses is putting antibiotics in the cow which is NOT what you should be doing. As I said, antibiotics also kill the GOOD BUGS. Leave her along, UNLESS she gets sick. Than 10-14 days after calving, give her Lutalyse to "clean" her out naturally.

Milkmaid, maybe Dairy cows are more prone to infection with the high demand on them, but maybe they get uterine boluses/treatment immediately which kills the idea of "leave them alone". Not saying they won't have some infection showing yukky discharge, but generally the lut shot completely clears that up, maybe following with a 2nd lut shot 10 days later.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

thanks Jeanne!