How much would you spend on a bull?

[M Gravlee]

Alan,

I liked your poll so much I put it on the front page. Dropped the Hereford and made it all breeds. Thanks for the idea.

Macon

 

[MissouriExile]

Money doesn't make the bull the best Hereford bull I ever seen cost 750 dollars. It is all about the seedstock producer behind the bull. There are to many people in the business today think every thing registered or black is seedstock quality.

Sorry folks, I missed the Hereford part of the question, So OT.

A very interesting topic. As a small time (& ignorant) startup I just purchased a registered 3yr Red Angus Cow (bred back) with a registered bull calf at her side for $1300 at a herd disbursement sale.
My thought was to (eventually) AI the mother and raise the 7 month old bull calf for a herd sire.
If it was a smart move and the bull works out I think I got a steal, if not.... well I don't really see how I can loose. Did I miss something?

Jon

Did you miss something? I don't know! Did you understand my rational?? Do you have a long time plan?? Do these individual Red Angus bovine's fit into that plan? Can you sustain that plan for 20 years? Are you happy with your purchases? Perhaps you did NOT miss something!

Plan Your Work - and - Work Your Plan! By neglecting that little rule - breeder's miss a lot of somethings!

DOC HARRIS

Doc;

I sincerely appreciate your "up front" response. My startup plan has been to build a sound commercial herd while learning the business. Your reply has made me realize that I badly need to formalize/detail a long term plan and work it.

Thanks
Jon Davis

 

[atcjets]

I always love hearing the funny stories on this subject. I have in the past bought some really great cheap bulls and some really exspensive junk bulls. Here Central Fl we have every thing agaist us bad quailty of grass, heat, flies almost year round and to many markets to skrew up the prices. I have used EPDS, advisors and so on I went back to what my grandpa and father always used. The eye if you have the chance to look over the ranch were it has come from and the sire and dam you can see somwhat of an idea. I switched to LIMOS 2 years ago just to add some Butts to cattle our cattle and it has worked we have seen some higher weights and some mucle.anlong with much better prices so to answer you have to look at the bulls and then pay the price. So many people are fooled by pappers and epds and pay top $$$ for junk if you do the resarch you can find what you are looking for. And for us here in Fl I know if you dont sell on Sat SALES you wont even get mid range for your calves. By the way I paid $1500.00 for our last bull.

 

[BRG]

When someone asks me what should their bulls cost, it is kind of a loaded question. It all depends on how much you can afford, if it is a terminal bull or not, what quality you are looking at, and what does the bull seller do for you.

First, the what you can afford bit - I have some customers that have tax issues and need to spend some money, then I have customers that are just starting out and don't have much. This is where a good budget come in to place.

Second, the teminal or not. Most of our customers keep or sell replacement females. These better be of high quality on the maternal end. Because your bull purchase , if he stays healthy and you use him for 5 years, you will have 5 years of replacements, and these girls will hopefully be in your herd for at least 10 years. So that is 15 years of direct daughters, then you could have around 15 more years of grand daughters. In a ranchers career, if he starts when he is 20 years old and quits when he is 60. You will only need to replace you bulls around a dozen times, IF the bulls last about 4 years. So I would say that you better do your homework and be prepared to pay some $ for good maternal bulls. Now a terminal bull will only be involved in your herd as long as he is alive.

And quality, who knows??? But if you have a bull that will keep your mature weight where you want it to be, and his calves weaning weights are at 600 lbs, he is worth more than the bull that will also keep the mature weight where you want it but has calves only weighing 450 lbs. It all needs to be calculated in. 150 lbs at a dollar a pound is $150 extra X 25 calves = $3750 extra income from the first bull. He is definetley worth alot more.

I think you also need to calculate in what your seedstock supplier does to help you increase your bottom $. We bid on all of our customers calves and because of this, they will almost always get an additional nickle for them. Which in turn calculates out to $28 on a 550 lbs calf. Or $2500 more for a 50,000 lbs load of calves.

Now back to the question, what will you spend??? On AVERAGE, the rule of thumb is around 4 steer calves, so if your calves bring $700 off the cow, then I would say be prepared to spend around $2800 for your bull.

 

[Herefords.US]

Plan Your Work - and - Work Your Plan! By neglecting that little rule - breeder's miss a lot of somethings!

DOC HARRIS

Doc, I took your quip and made it my signature line here. Had to shorten it a bit to get it to fit - Hope you don't mind!

When I look at some breeding programs, including some very prominent and successful breeders, I'm often troubled by a seeming lack of direction in them - other than them chasing after the newest "hot" bull and hoping to produce the NEXT one!

Perhaps they can see something I don't?

Am I wrong in thinking that there needs to be some consistency in background(bloodlines) along with phenotype to get the best "across the board" breeding results? Or is most everyone just shooting craps in the hope of producing that one "outlier"?

George

 

[oakcreekfarms]

I would spend up to 10,000 in the future on a bull that I felt would improve on all the things my cow herd needs. I am not looking to produce expensive bulls, but I do want my cow herd to be the best that I can possibly make it. However, I think most commercial cattleman can get what they need to produce good calves for $2500 or less.

 

[KNERSIE]

Now back to the question, what will you spend??? On AVERAGE, the rule of thumb is around 4 steer calves, so if your calves bring $700 off the cow, then I would say be prepared to spend around $2800 for your bull.

traditionally it was said by the oldtimers that you could pay what 4 cows would cost you or 7 steers, for a seedstck bull.

 

[Ryder]

As a couple of others have pointed out it comes down to,
1. What can you afford? I don't care how good a bull might be, if you don't have the money ...
Most people are limited in the area of financial resources.

2. What can you get out of the bull on a dollar basis.
A seedstock producers dealing in high dollar animals may need a high dollar bull with a pedigree from here to yonder.

A commercial man has to look at what increase he can get from his calves when they go across the scale and what can he afford to invest for the increase. As you go up in price of bulls, sooner or later the law of diminishing returns comes in.

You had better pay attention to what you pay for a bull.

 

[MoGal]

For a lot of commercial breeders who have less than 25 head I rather doubt that most of them pay more than $1500 and for many people that is the very limit.

Granted I had to wait 2 or 3 months as I got them at about 10 months of age (with the exception of the 3 y/o Galloway, hubby bought him at the sale barn for $750) but the most I've ever paid and that was for registered stock (limo $800, brangus $1000 each, red poll $1.20 lb at 6 months of age).

I found a real nice 15 month old hereford bull last month but the hubby said no as he was priced at $2400.

I realize most of these seedstock producers put their bulls on test and have grain costs but your average commercial breeder is not willing to pay for that $4.00 bushel corn just so you can toot your horn about epd's.

 

[cfpinz]

Most of ours run in the $2000 range. For the right bull I'd go up to $3000 if he really tripped my trigger. But getting me to shell out 3k is like squeezing blood from a turnip.

cfpinz

 

[Brandonm2]

Now back to the question, what will you spend??? On AVERAGE, the rule of thumb is around 4 steer calves, so if your calves bring $700 off the cow, then I would say be prepared to spend around $2800 for your bull.

traditionally it was said by the oldtimers that you could pay what 4 cows would cost you or 7 steers, for a seedstck bull.

7 630 pound steers in the U.S. (June AL. Cattleman pg 46 7 x 712.66) would be $4988.62. I could buy a good bull, a good horse, rework half the fences on 40 acres, and buy a tank of gas for that.

In the old timers day, a top cow had ONE calf a year...now she has 5 to 25+++. Most purebred producers in the U.S. are trying to produce $10,000+++ donor cows and $5000 show heifers NOT bulls. ONLY a handful of bulls are needed for A.I. and most breeders can only promote 2 young sires a year if THAT many. IF they don't have a commercial bull sale every year, they struggle to market their young bulls. I bought an ET bull from TRM once for $1500 (mine was the only bid) in a sale where a female full sib brought $14000. Randy had boy bulls this year that no saled because nobody was there to bid $1500. Most purebreeders will bend over backwards for a commission free private treaty bull sell, even in herds where every female is worth more than my pickup truck. Maybe sexed semen will do something to stop the bull surplus. If you go out to somebody's place and say 'that is the bull I want...will you take $6000' they will be glad to take your check; but in actuality the bull business is a buyer's market (at least in the U.S.) and if you make a legitimate offer, a lot of times you are saving him from feeding that bull another month or running him thru the stock yard.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

With the prices that most are getting across the scales a good bull will pay himself off very quickly. Even if you can clear an average of 30lbs more per calf come sale day you are clearing an additional $1000 a year. I don't think that you have to buy $5000 bulls to get that, but good quality bulls will make you more money and build you a better cow herd.

 

[dun]

but good quality bulls will make you more money and build you a better cow herd.

But you don;t have to do both at the same time.

 

[Brandonm2]

Somebody brought up Deshazers in another string and I went to their web site. While I did not find a detailed description of how they develop their bulls, I did find a price list. Without a pic, I can't even begin to evaluate a bull, but they got theirs priced at $2000-4000 even with their big marketing budget.

http://www.cattleinmotion.com/dcc/07v3/

 

[dun]

$30.00 a unit tops

dun

 

[Northern Rancher]

Not only do you need the wherewithal to buy the bull you need if he's getting pricey but you need the fortitude to still buy the one you need if he isn't topping the sale. I've sen many times when a bull that wasn't exactly what the purebred drones were after sold for under the sale average but was just what the buyer needed. I guess my point is if he is what you need don't be afraid to spend your bank but conversely don't worry if you sneak one out from under their nose. There's probably more quality differance between a two and three thousand bull then there is between a five and ten thousand dollar one. Once you get over five grand it's mostly ego,whiskey and getting raped by the ringworms that drives the price.

 

[Jogeephus]

Once you get over five grand it's mostly ego,whiskey and getting raped by the ringworms that drives the price.

So that's why its a free bar the night before the sale here. Never bought anything seems auctioneer gives me a headache for some reason - funny - it don't happen at the other sales. :lol:

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Once you get over five grand it's mostly ego,whiskey and getting raped by the ringworms that drives the price.

So that's why its a free bar the night before the sale here. Never bought anything seems auctioneer gives me a headache for some reason - funny - it don't happen at the other sales. :lol:

-
Another "THUMB" rule - leave alcohol OUT of your diet for at least one week before a sale!

DOC HARRIS